Tanks Rushing, M+, Timers, And You!

Every new expansion sees the same complains about tanks rushing towards the end of the dungeon as fast as possible. Dragonflight is not new to these complaints. But they do suddenly seem inflated based on a few things. But whether or not tanks need nerfs, or healers need nerfs, or any of that is irrelevant to the point I would like to address.

The mentality of tanks rushing has mostly originated from the M+ timer. Tanks have been pre conditioned for years now that they have to set an incredibly strong pace to finish the dungeon in time otherwise it always essentially gets blamed on them somehow.

The M+ timer is toxic in a lot of ways. It encourages people to be angry and rude to one another. To leave keys if people view it as being “bricked” it encourages a lot of other things, some of which I’m going to leave out here because I do not want to shift the focus.

One thing I noticed in my own M0 groups in DF is that because I’m not incredibly toxic in terms of tanking (i don’t rush as fast as humanly possible, i personally like to pull 2 groups, bust cooldowns and sit still in one place then move on to the next packs) is that people are a lot nicer in M0 because there are no timers, and because if you wipe you can give it another go until you finish.

I’ve given some thought and I think M+ should have two ratings, not just one rating. A personal rating (like we currently have) and a seasonal rating.

M+ dungeons are incredibly difficult for players who haven’t been playing for 3+ years in a non casual sense. I think M+ needs an overhaul and this is what I personally think would make M+ a better place.

1.) Make all normal rewards (end of run loot, valor points, and personal rating) dependent only on finishing the dungeon. Have a set score and you either finish or you don’t. 0 rating for not finishing and full rating for finishing. The affixes + mechanics are already incredibly good pace for this, and anyone should be able to get KSM + Mount + gear. Your personal rating is NOT affected by the timer in this case.

2.) Have the timer provide a piece of bonus loot and also a SEASONAL rating. It’s identical to personal rating but you get a secondary rating for finishing the dungeon in time, and bonus ratings for +2 and +3.

This would make it so that people can form groups based on “completion” or “seasonal push”. That would make it so that anyone joining a “seasonal push” group is basically in it for the seasonal awards (such as the seasonal title that something like 0.01% of players get awarded) and maybe give them a special armor transmog or weapon enchant.

The base level of M+ would be far more of a good environment where the vast majority of people who only care about KSM and Seasonal Mount and gearing up can play, and the “extremely hardcore” can form groups based on seasonal ratings. This way the “unspoken expectations” of players to perform phenomenal can generally be expected in the latter groups, without the pressure to timer perform in the first group.

This would alleviate the bricking of keys etc because a lot of players like me do not care to push for the ultimate seasonal awards or anything above +15 or +16 we just want seasonal mounts at a fair difficulty rating, which is something the dungeons provide as you move up with increased damage and mob health + affixes.

I’ve found even in M0 that players are willing to help others learn mechanics and stick around because the rewards are there at the end of the run. But the second the run is viewed as a “loss” by at least one player, the run is over.

These thoughts are my own personal opinion, but to me, pose the best answer that would let the average player pursue seasonal gear and awards in a much less toxic environment while allowing the ultra “hardcore” the ability to get rewarded for completing the timer.

Obviously it’s too late for this season, but hopefully developers will consider in nearby seasons to come.

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Holy wall of text!

Can we get a TL/DR?

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honestly m+ doesn’t need to be changed. it’s just that simple.

i agree that new players have a hard time getting into m+ but it is, an end game activity.

For people learning, I highly suggest making your own group and putting “learning” or “completion” in the title. It weeds people out that might be rude towards you while you learn.

Or guilds and communities!

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Ngl I didn’t read your post it was too large and daunting but trying to make blizzard fix how people play is never a good idea. Instead just let them do whatever and likewise you do the same don’t want to keep up don’t and collect free loot. I kinda like that if I que healer I can afk and watch youtube videos.

Ok Zoomer.

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I agree with everything you said, OP. Your ideas are logical, concise and would improve the overall enjoyment and player experience in M+.

For these reasons, there’s a near-absolute certainty that Blizzard won’t be implementing anything remotely similar to what you’ve outlined here.

Good day.

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I’m sure you think that means something, but it really doesn’t.

You’re probably right. I tried to think of a way to improve M+ without taking away their precious incentive of players buying boosts. Because I know any improvements that do not incentive boosts will be discarded immediately.

All this system does is essentially keep things the same but take pressure off the vast majority of people to complete the timer, but make it relevant for those who still want the timer. The need to buy boosts in the first group of players would still exist and not change at all. So I’m hoping they consider this change. It would make sense, change virtually nothing, and make life better for all.

No, it’s just fun to pull a bunch of stuff and clear dungeons quickly.

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to be fair I did say mostly, not inclusively.

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Big numbers make my dracthyr happy.

But I’m going to reply anyway.

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Welcome to the internet
Have a look around
Anything that brain of yours can think of can be found
We’ve got mountains of content
Some better, some worse
If none of it’s of interest to you, you’d be the first

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The problem is still that those people in the mid-range or lower who don’t like to admit they are mid-range or lower? They will apply the same rules as higher end players and not invite certain players based on their season score.

Blizzard can’t really change people’s opinions, desire to be carried, etc even with a different scoring system.

They really should add another version of mythic+ that works the same, loot included without any timer at all. You can keep the KSM etc…and all the achievement rewards in the timed version only.

And yes before someone says “Durrr evilbadguy you can just ignore the timer now”, unfortunately it isn’t that simple for most people as having a timer at all already muddies the water.

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It’s not a problem though because in some of those cases then, perhaps they deserve a hard dose of reality because they are signing up for an advanced group with advanced ratings. But the vast majority of players who stick with option 1 personal rating only will still have a vastly improved experience gearing up, collecting valor and getting their seasonal mount.

This problem already exists but causes the masses a ton of inconvenience in how players interact and the bricking of keys. Changing the system as I’ve suggested would make a whole group of people’s lives easier while retaining the same problem that already exists (mid level players thinking they are elite). Leave that heartache for the much smaller number of groups going for the extreme hardcore content.

Gearing up and seasonal mounts should be separated from more elite seasonal rewards in terms of the timer. Again, my own personal view on how we could make things better for “most”.

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Uhh, there’s nothing wrong at all with M+ as a system. The only reason people are complaining about tanks right now is because hyper-casuals and hyper-carry types and everything in between are in the same player pool because everyone is gated to the same content. When raids and M+ release, the people moving insanely fast will will be doing the harder content that requires speedy movement, and the entire group will have to fall in line in order to push keys.

Casual players will be left to do whatever content they’re comfortable with, and the sightings of these M+ type players will decrease.

However, M+ as a system is utterly fine. People like it, and they play it a lot, hence it now being an evergreen system.

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The failure criterion is the timer though, not the encounters itself (different than raiding).

The encounters are made to easy to best on their own, it’s doing it in the time limit that is the challenge (until some absurdly high tyrannical key).

So…removing the timer aspect kind of completely changes what mythic+ is.

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Just because people like something doesn’t mean it is utterly fine or can’t have room for improvements. I wish people had a mindset more open to positive changes rather than being against change in any form whether good or bad.

If every system ever introduced was “utterly fine” we’d never have any systems that we have today because most of them were improved upon from previous systems that didn’t work out, or needed improving on.

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Some would argue classic exists entirely because many people didn’t feel the changes were “improvements.”

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