I mean, let’s not pretend that looking up videos and reading a guide is simply people going “Hey, here’s a fire, maybe don’t stand in it”. Detailed fight explanations, instructions and tips for positioning, route steps pull by pull, there are what those guides and videos go into, and are essentially the main thing for players TO figure out to beat the dungeons.
Much of this is either not relevant on lower difficulty modes, or treated very differently. Even going left vs going right in BRH is not a real thing, until it matters. For example, I don’t think anyone can reasonably expect a player to “figure out” that the Triple Containment Device will gib them in one cast, until they get to a difficulty level where it starts trucking them. Doing a lower M+ level where Magmatusk dies before he even ramps up won’t tell you anything major, or if Rokmora just didn’t happen to RNG spawn and Shatter, doesn’t really prepare you for when they scale up and it matters.
Oh come on now. Skipping over that the dungeon guide doesn’t even include trash - the dungeon guide doesn’t even really give you useful information for many boss fights, like Hackclaw’s Band. You’re not going to read the dungeon guide and know the set play that is Hextrick, dispel, Savage Charge. Gash Frenzy is marked as nothing other than a healer alert, when it’s very much not just a “healer mechanic”. No one’s looking at the Dungeon Guide and figuring out that the positioning of totems and cloud on Wratheye are completely controllable, or the positioning that makes Cragmaw manageable.
Guides are a valuable resource for players, and it’s a great thing that players are able to share this information around. There’s no need to straight up downplay/lie about them.
If we aren’t pretending, then lets not pretend that people don’t watch/read up on resources like these for every multiplayer game, especially competitive games. Lets not pretend that the culture of “pre-watching, pre-learning, before even attempting things” isn’t the norm in online multiplayer games.
Let’s also not pretend that the people learning as they go are not the ones bricking level 15-20 keys.
If watching videos is literally the norm, why are you arguing that me saying that watching videos or reading guides before doing higher level mythics is antithetical to the concept of gaming for a lot of people?
Because while it has become more and more normal as time progresses, it’s still an action that essentially undermines what some people look for in this game, or any game. For those who are fine with it, we view gaming differently. Or we have different considerations - like an increased priority on keeping our raiding guild alive. That’s one reason it hasn’t become a universal prerequisite, aside from in the more niche ultra-competitive/professional spheres where it’s essential. I wouldn’t really put +11-13’s, or +15’s, in the same boat personally.
It’s a little extreme to set an obligation on someone to do something that could essentially kill the fun of the game for them. There’s no practical difference between that and saying “Play the game my way, or GTFO”.
Yeah, because almost every time I am in a mythic run and I try and tell someone how to handle a mechanic, they stop me and say “Hey, you are ruining the fun of me figuring it out on my own!” and we proceed to wipe until they figure it out because I don’t want to ruin their gameplay experience.
Everytime I am leading a raid and explain a fight, people are always telling me “Stop explaining the fight, lets have more fun by figuring out the mechanics as we go!” and we continue to wipe until they figure out the mechanics.
This is certainly the norm, and why it is extreme to set an obligation on someone to do something that could kill the fun of the game for them. As long as they are having fun.
Just waltz in, fail a few times, and it’s fine. One bricked key or a few wipes aren’t the end of the world.
Imagine watching videos for a dungeon. (Maybe once in a while for mdi but then it’s not learning anything.) Yes, sometimes I pick up new things in 20+ keys still. It’s wonderful.
Neither of those are going to be a thing because those ARE part of finding, learning and solving challenges as a team.
They’re certainly not comparable to going and watching a Youtube video breakdown.
Part of building teams is making sure everyone’s on the same page. My friends and I would happily share strategies, theorycraft, etc., because we were of the same mindset, because we wanted to be competitive, and so on. Someone who didn’t share that would never have been a good fit in our groups/guild.
I completely understand my own context, hence I have no idea what you’re talking about.
What I said was that my friends and I are the types of people who happily theorycraft, research, shared strategies and so on freely. We have the same mindset about this. I then said that someone who didn’t have that (e.g. someone who didn’t like to do those things) would not have been a good fit in our guild, or in our runs. The meaning of that latter sentence there, is that such a person wouldn’t have been in our guild, or running with us at all.
So I still don’t know what you’re asking. Are you asking how they would know they weren’t invited to our guild? How we would know before we recruited them/accepted their app? That’s the closest I can get from what you asked to what you quoted.
So you’re asking where my friends and I find information from?
Aside from being involved in pre-release testing, class Discords, contributing to the guides and content that’s out there, we can obviously converse and talk regularly about experiences at various stages of progression - like pushing for Titles or Hall of Fame raids. It’s a bit more than ye average person can just Google for.
It leaves me a bit confused why you’re asking this question, if it is the question you’re asking, but whatever. I still don’t know if that IS your question, or why you’re being cagey about just asking it clearly. If that’s your question, why wouldn’t you just quote that bit in the first place?
My question was pretty clear in the context of our conversation. If you are still confused, there really isn’t much more I can say to make you understand. It was a pretty basic question to begin with.
OK, at this point you’re being straight up delulu.
Your question isn’t clear at all. Even between post 71 and 75, you quoted 2 different segments entirely, talking about 2 different groups of people, your first question quoted a segment which contained nothing about any information or location, and made no logical connection to your question, and hence I specifically asked you who is “they” and what “information” you’re referring to.
You could literally have simply given a direct response like “Where are your friends researching information?”, or “They refers to X, and the information is Y” and I assure you that’s not too complex to understand. Instead you’ve gone on this weird circle of not being clear, and are now still being vague as if there’s something more I haven’t answered to your satisfaction. You’re not being too clever for mere mortals to understand. Just act like a normal person and directly type like … 10 words.
And yet, such a simple concept you can’t grasp. Anyway have a nice day. Unlike you I find wasting time on the forums with someone who plays dumb isn’t something I enjoy.