mage/lock was NOT okay
mage/lock doesn’t offer the same passive group utility tanks do but this past season was a massive blackmark on this games history so using it as justification isn’t really the move here
besides that though
a team positioning well and using their utility to take a game to dampening is 400000000000000000% different
if they make a mistake they lose
if they position poorly and have to spend excess cds they lose
tank comps on the other hand DONT lose when they make a mistake
it’s not a strategy that they take you into dampening
they do it completely on accident
everything about tanks slows the game down a disgusting amount and you dont have to be aware of whats going on around you to be protected from it
a good example of how tanks SHOULD work is similar to arms warriors in SL
utility like banner->disarm->intervene->70% snare on a cd->aoe physical fear
warriors are able to play goalie with their immense defensive kit
it’s extremely frustrating to queue into a good warrior but at the same time you can tell a good warrior from a bad one typically by how consistent they are with their positioning and utility
and it’s all cd based
if tanks took more damage, did less damage than a dps, and next to no healing
but had counterplay style utility similar to historic arms
they MIGHT have a place in arena
the current iteration has no reason to not share the healer tag
tanks do way too much harm to arena
As single target off heals, with those heals only capable of 30% health gains with CD’s in effect at best.
Tanks already take 50% more damage as it is. Any more than that then a discrimination lawsuit is somehow going to come out of it. No other spec is forced into 40% or even 50% damage handicap for the sake of DPS to have an easier time getting a kill in.
That is seriously more bad mechanic design. The PvP mechanics as a whole need an overhaul to remove any kind of requirement for nerfing specific specializations. Heaven forbid we get a full PvP talent tree that never affects PvE content at all.
Dampening in Arena could be done away with, increasing any spec’s incoming damage taken can be done away with, having to Nerf any spec’s damage output can be done away with, rebalancing gear and talents around the concept of a “fair fight.”
I’m all for leveling the playing field with smarter design that works for everyone, without having to dump on one specialization for it.
the % means nothing if it’s hardly impactful
you say 50% like the number horrifies you
i promise you no spec competes in a 1v1 or 2v1 with a prot paladin even with the 50% handicap before dampening
the % could be 120% and you could still very clearly identify the tank spec as a tank
‘easier time getting a kill in’ good joke
imagine turning on cheat codes so you dont have to play well or be aware of basic game mechanics then make snarky comments about everyone else like THEY’re entitled LMFAO
This whole thread is about entitlement. Demanding a whole specialization to disappear from Arena, is the definition of it. No way around that at all.
Oh its a joke? alright lets ask Blizz to remove that 50% completely and see how much of a joke it is, no other changes to anything else. Let tanks not be handicapped so you got a real reason to complain.
yeah they don’t fit because they are designed to take hits from raid bosses that would one shot dps. No dps is hitting like a raid boss ever, unless you want me to dig through old videos for tenacity in wintergrasp
Yep. It seems obvious that tanks will never be in good state for 2s or 3s. When you can pair them with another tank in 2s(wasn’t this a thing for a bit in Legion with Double Blood DKs or Guardian Druids?), and in 3s like current Prot Paladins being an off healing master of disruption with half decent DMG arena becomes unplayable.
As dumb as 5s was, with no one really participating, I’d bring it back only to let tanks get a place to shine in the Arena. Sure you’re not going to get the fancy title or mount, but at least you can get rating and have fun(isn’t that all you really want?).
They should defiantly try to balance them a bit more where they can have back some of their defensive abilities for survival(and not take such an insane amount of increased dmg other than during dampening in Arenas) but to balance that they basically have to fill the same role as a healer in the Arena. When a tank spec is strong in PvP pairing with a healer + superb DPS it’s just unfair.
Compromise works better than just completely destroying something. I say let tanks exist in PvP, but know that they are a “support” class like a healer and fill the same role! Tanks should have a place in all forms of content(I totally get the class fantasy of wanting to be a sword and board Warrior/Paladin, Giant Werebear, Drunker Master, Vampire Knight or Diablo), but there has so be some consideration taken into how utterly broken some of these classes become when put in the hands of really good players who have even better healers and dps working with them.
TLDR instead of having to utterly destroy the specs for the more casual PvP(basically everything but 3s) limit the role tanks play by having them and healers fill the same spot in queues for Arena(both 2s and 3s). If someone can get Gladiator running double DPS and a Tank then good for them, but I doubt it will happen.
I like your brainstorming but I feel Tanks should do big chunky damage like they did in Wrath. The good news is with pre-patch and SL prots across all classes are getting spells back! A tank really shouldn’t have constant Dps pressure (that’s what Dps are for)but every so often whack you for 40-55% of your HP.
PvP is always better when Tanks hit really hard and I feel Tanks are supposed to be the real hybrids. Which means that not having a Tank in your comp puts you at a disadvantage. Double Dps shouldn’t be viable!
Another change I’d like to see if HP pools get as huge as BFA with Tanks having almost twice as much as a DPS would be to keep the bonus dmg on tanks but change the functionality of the Taunt PvP talent.
Instead of it increasing the dmg your target takes for each player hit, make it so only the taunted target bonus(hell make them take 75% more!) dmg to the tank while everyone else deals reduced dmg(0% bonus). No more constant refresh, give it the normal taunt CD but have it only last like 10 seconds or something. There should be windows where the tank is totally vulnerable but also times when they can pick/sit on a target without
Yeah but that’s Rextroy who breaks the game. If he didn’t post videos no one would of come up with his builds. Plus wasn’t that in BFA with broken corruption stacking?
I don’t think covenants are going to give the same kind of secondary stat buffs he was packing. Corruption season doesn’t count for crap because the game was the most unbalanced version it’s ever been.
I recall a few double tank dps team back in wrath iirc correctly, but that was prot/holy prot warrior mage.
Technically had a healer but they were super deep into the tank tree.
True enough. I remember making my Pally a fotm prot/holy healer in Wrath. Still if anyone is whining about how unbalanced 2s is who cares. There is a reason you can’t get glad in 2s. Removing rewards is basically admitting defeat by Blizzard that it will never be “balanced”.
Sorry I’m super high. I wasn’t even referring to that makeup of classes. Just saying that anyone in here complaining about prot in 2s is dumb. Also complaining about classes during the final season of BFA where all that mattered was corruption stacking, also dumb. This was the dumbest season of PvP they’ve ever had.
I was more getting back to my point about Tanks and Healers being the same support “slot” when queuing for games. I get a superb Pally in BFA during the corruption season made it work. I also get back in Wrath when classes had almost full access to their spell books other then a few keystone abilities(like holy shock) made it so a few classes(Prot/Holy Pally, the infamous SL/SL Lock) were viable hybrid specs.
2s will always be an unbalanced disaster. 3s a little bit better but we’re always going to get a meta especially with the insane number of combinations people can put together in SL with the soulbinds, legendaries, and covenant abilities. People will find something that works great for most situations and gravitate towards it.
If people want to try to play double DPS + tank, I say let them go for it. Dampening just needs an extra mechanic to increase the %dmg tanks take as it climbs. Just like healers start to lose their healing, tanks should lose their tankiness. If they had a mechanic like this in game they might actually be able to make give tanks back a little of their base tankiness back, especially if dps/healer vs tank health pools remain where DPS has 2/3 the HP of a tank instead of 1/2.
