How would you have felt yesterday evening if you hadn’t eaten breakfast or lunch?
I’m not sure what you two are arguing back and forth about.
You can have a tank designed where itss mitigation is based on self-healing, but Blizzard doesn’t seem to see “mitigation” and “self-healing” as the same thing.
To them you can have either one or the other, and they are trying to balance the two as if they are separate, which is the apparently the problem for DKs since currently their mitigation is self-healing.
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Still waiting to see if you disagree or not on my statement. Or is everything just an hypothetical that you were never willing to discuss.
They certainly do when they compare shield block to deathstrike.
Which also isn’t true, moreover when tons of tanks have self-healing nowadays. It’s just another balance factor.
And many other abilities, it’s not like they don’t have defensive cooldowns.
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He doesn’t understand a hypothetical. That’s why I typed the meme.
I’m not disagreeing. I’m pointing at it as a weird problem Blizzard seems to be having with this in particular. At least from where I’m sitting.
They treat active mitigation and self-healing as being different things, until they don’t, but balance things as if they do…until they don’t want to.
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You can, but then the following sequence seems to happen:
- Healers who only care about meters complain
- Blizzard nerfs all tanks to coddle both the egos of vain healers and the ego of DK’s who demand on being the only spec in the game with a “niche” year after year that never changes
They have done a lot of balance on it, it’s not like blood dks were the best tanks all the time.
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I’m trying to remember the last time that Death Knights weren’t the most popular Mythic raid tank.
Maybe BfA?
If you go by most popular, they certainly haven’t been for M+ for a while.
As far as mythic raid go, blood dks only got strong in SL with Sepulcher tier set.
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Druid tanks niche was to be the extra raid tank that could switch back and forth between bear and cat depending on how many tanks a boss need.
Then they simplified all the bosses to be two tanks waiting on a tank swap mechanic.
Back to the topic of brewmaster, hopefully they aren’t hit too hard by these nerfs
I just wish they took Purifying Brew off of the Blackout Combo list.
That’s the one thing that all Brewmasters agree on.
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Perfect summation.
I stopped healing during BFA expansion and still don’t want to, reason being healers were suppose to be 5th damage dealer. I was reprimanded by a group for not doing enough damage as druid healer.
If tanks don’t need healers then give healing to dps and remove healers from the game. Make dungeons single player content. If there is no dependency then make it a single player game instead of mmo.
The more I play with these changes the more I see healers struggle.
Honestly I wouldn’t mind if tanks had very little or even no self healing but the nerfs to tank mitigation and the tuning of damage right now is just insane. Very spiky and many tanks just fall over to 3 mobs.
There are some tanks rn (prot pally) that genuinely need like a 3x boost to mitigation but I think that if tanks had low self healing but way higher mitigation they’d still be fun to play, biggest issue is healers need more time to get around to everyone and the damage is so spiky.
If this entire post was about mythic gear players in your heroic dungeon zerging boss to boss well thats never going to change, the mobs simply don’t deal enough damage and there is no need to spend more time doing the chore than absolutely necessary. Stops however are unnecessary so I don’t think thats what you mean.
If your talking about content that is dangerous relative to your gear and actually requires stops than I’ve never had a single pug group complain. Most groups typically compliment the pulls because they get to break the 2 million dps mark on those types of pulls.
Off the wall bonkers pulls doesn’t mean wipe the group. You can pull huge and the party can survive. Its about knowing how many stops your group has and how many is needed, if the group tends to overlap etc. If its the first pull you can talk it out before the key is even put in.
Doing this you can pull all the trash to the first boss in Nelth even in a +10. Each person grabs their marked guy and interrupts with their interrupt, I’ll grab the next stop with Incap, DH can grab the next with nova, the one after is interrupts again, I’ll grab the following with war stomp etc.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1188894521354887342/1264558469323948082/image.png?ex=669e4f59&is=669cfdd9&hm=5b4ff196d103d1a5e4a3e000c761fbf10132f9a0e350e26aed0e1e091fc9e7cc&
Its a high risk high reward pull that you do once to maybe as many as three times in a dungeon because you want every one to have CD’s for it, pots and hero if possible as well. If we wipe though its not like its a big deal, we go again with more conservative pulls.
The fun is in using tools that you wouldn’t normally use because there is no need. Such as comboing vortex with typhoon to act as a stop. Or in strategic kiting during periods where mobs are buffed from enraging or bolstering.
You currently need to use every mitigation you have in order to survive those big pulls, this doesn’t change. Not sure how you think tanks are currently pulling 6 or more packs without using their mitigation… Its statements like that that have me scratching my head wondering what you think is going on.
But no, you won’t be able to tell who is good or bad because every tank will be pulling essentially the same small pull without variation between them. At least until good tanks start mass pulls with kiting which is already happening. Than you will see that trickle down to tanks who don’t know how to kite yet and will wipe you not because they don’t have stops but because they don’t understand to kit around a corner to force casters to move, out range their healer, or just wind up loosing threat, or stay in to long and die before they start kiting.
No matter how much people complain about it, big pulls is the most efficient way to do a dungeon when dps have their CD’s up. So tanks will continue to need to pull as big as they and the group can handle. There is just no getting around it.
Its why the no kiting part of their blue post is laughable and we see people already kiting in beta. Whats really funny is because I’ll kite I won’t take as much damage and healers will still have nothing to heal. All its going to do is irritate the dps that have targeted ground effects I have to pull mobs out of.
So to recap.
- Zerging will still be a thing.
- Healers will still have little to heal on the tank when they kite outside of casters (at least till we find corners to los the casts.)
- Dps will be annoyed because ground effects will be less effective.
- Tanks will be annoyed because they can’t face tank.
This will lead to tank and healer population decrease which results in increased wait times for dps and eventually people quit because they spend hours in que not able to run anything because tanks and healers will only run with people they know. Just like SL S1. Then they will slowly revert the nerfs.
The problem they are trying to solve is that dps have to many defensives which has lead to a use a defensive or die. This means there is little for healers to heal and damage has to be spiky. Defensives need to be pruned from dps. The reason they won’t do this is because it means reworking the talent trees and replacing the defensive talents. With what? Utility? well they have to many problems with that already so it would have to be throughput talents. That however means reworking the trees, making new talents and than rebalancing all the classes dps. Thats months of beta testing thrown away.
So instead they repeat the same thing they did from BFA to SL by nerfing tanks into the ground because its easier to nerf 6 specs than it is to rework all the dps spec and class trees.
My prediction is bears will end up near the top of the meta. They have a speed buff and a built in slow as well so they can kite pretty much indefinitely as well as a high damage spammable ranged ability to generate threat. They also have incarn to help with the inital pull and threat generation on multiple packs. And can heal through some of the ranged damage with renwal and FR. Than in emergencies they have vortex and typhoon to gain more distance.
There are really only two ways for them to stop this that I can think of and thats putting a target cap on all abilities or making sure there are casters who spam cast on dps and healers in most packs. As those casts hit dps you need to limit the possibility of multiple casts randomly targeting a dps player at the same time and one shotting them even through defensives.
My advise though it will probably go unheeded is that if you don’t like dealing with trash and just want to fight a single guy or small packs than raiding may be more suited to you as that is what its meant to be.
M+ is designed to be dynamic so that you can change your pulls based on you and your parties needs. Pulling as much as you possibly can and not wiping is extremely rewarding to everyone involved. The tank for being able to survive, the healer for pumping out insane healing numbers and getting to heal, the dps love it for getting big dps numbers.
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The tank’s job is to hold threat and mitigate their incoming damage as much as they can. Unless they extremely outgear the content, they should NOT be able to mitigate or heal everything. That’s the healer’s job.
Since there were threads during DF where people were complaining that the healer “wasn’t pulling their weight” by doing damage, yeah something is wrong and needs to be fixed. I haven’t tested the changes yet, it’s very possible further adjustments will need to be made, but the way it is now cannot continue.
As a healer I have nothing against tossing out a flame shock or a lava burst proc from time to time, especially during downtime. But it should not be my job to just stand there and dps.
But, As I have been told MANY times by dps, if you stand there and pro dps as a healer, you save yourself healing effort because you kill the monsters faster. Therefore you won’t even need to heal, because you’re contributing to the stoppage of damage coming in. Therefore just dps your heals, aka - roll a dps.
Proceeds to hit with the effectiveness of wet noodles
100% all this.
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Nerfed tanks overall doesn’t benefit anyone as everyone will find out soon enough on Season 1, looking forward to watch this hot mess.
gg
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