I’m just trying to get gear and rating to get into the keys that progress me towards the season mount and then I’ll probably chill out in pandaland till war within. The runs have been super dumb lately and its consistently been bad, impatient, crackhead tanks that pull like maniacs, don’t control what they pull, ranging casters and line of sighting their healer but they get away with it because they’re a DK or DH or whatever broken unkillable god class throwing out the same numbers as the actual dps.
I get that nobody liked having to babysit spam heal the tank. I didn’t like it either.
However I don’t think a healer should be completely superfluous to the tank and I’m pretty much only there to heal myself and the dps except for the uncommon scenario where the tank doesn’t have a button to press or maybe eats a tank buster (he goes below 70% health for one global)
Outside of dedicated “party takes damage” events I feel completely useless as a healer even if I’m doing like 150k+ hps in the 2-5 key range it doesn’t feel like I’m being effective or necessary most of the time because half my output gets wasted into overhealing and the tank mitigates or straight up heals more than me anyway while doing staggeringly more damage than me. Its so mind breakingly goofy. The tanks are the only real role in the party and we’re just NPC’s in their follower dungeons at this point.
I’m not really sure how to make tanks care about self preservation in a +2-5 when in that same gear level they’ve also gotta be able to handle levels much much higher.
There’s the silly suggestion of capped damage but that has the side effect once tank is good enough to tank the cap, they can technically, tank every key forever.
(Because what they do doesn’t change.)
Tanks don’t have to be able to handle much higher levels (just up to 10) but if that were the case, it would be nearly impossible for most of the playerbase.
They die anyway (cause of mistiming stuff.) Should tanks be literally immortal? And sometimes they even require healing.
I’ll say it’s annoying when a tank walks up to a pack and just dies. (a single pack) Because the norm is they live forever. Then sometimes still die in sub 2 seconds.
It’s the lack of consistency. At least, when others die, there’s usually a missed interrupt.
No I’m saying that making tanks worse would create situations where the reason you die is just your tank can’t physically survive, even if they play correctly.
I believe its fairly safe to say that the equivalent of 12-15’s is supposed to be when you expect keys to not be hardcore by any means, but also not fully trivial. Yes you get gear to make them easier as the season goes on. We get it. But I don’t think you should be chaining a pack to another pack and then glaive throwing to a third or fourth pack and then the tank is the only member of the party that isn’t too concerned about living. That should not be a thing.
If I watch a DH headbutt the -entire- first room of RLP and he’s the only one that doesn’t die in the chaos, that’s kind of stupid. They’re so much stronger than their party members and that’s the intent of my original post. I don’t necessarily want them to be nerfed, what I’m trying to communicate is that kind of play makes me feel like there’s no point to me being present as a healer. At that point you’re going to run out of kicks and stops and people will probably get squished even if I’m blowing every button I have. Respawn and walk back while the DH is just sitting there jamming away and doing just fine. He doesn’t need us. We’re just there to make his follower dungeon go faster.
Typically when I’m doing keys and this happens, it’s because of a lack of interrupts / CC from the DPS.
The handful of times I’ve had tanks that mass pull with no regard for the group, if we all wipe twice in one pull, I just wait patiently for the tank to die, then I walk back to the group. If the DPS want to run up and die, then that’s on them, but I’m not tanking my repair bill over your poor choice of pulls.
There are undergeared tanks pull alot and died. +2 should need at least ilvl 480. So check the tank ilvl. If ilvl is low, better join other group. In DF M+, most of the time, tank don need healing fr healer unless mechanic needs healing or the tank pull super big group. If the group interrupt and stun well, undergeared tank still can survive big pull without any healing fr healer. However, in +2 to +5, many dps just ignore interrupt, stun and dispel afflicted, better leave the group if anyone ilvl < 480. Healing a +10 is easier than heal a +2 when the tank is undegeared and dps don interrupt or stun. Those ilvl below 480 should do heroic or M0.
That might be a bit high of a req for a +2. I was able to comfortably tank +2’s in 440-450 gear on my alt tanks this season (I was higher on my main). For someone less experienced, 460 is probably ok for a +2. Remember you don’t have to blast or big pull a +2. The timers are pretty lenient at that level.
Yeah I healed some pretty low tanks in M0/+2 that were just fine for the vast majority. Trying to heal +2s that first week (tyrannical) if you were 440-450 would be ridiculous though…
People that are doing 2-5s are generally very overgeared. Try going into some higher keys you will notice a difference other then when healing bdk, but thats litterally how bdk has been for many many years now for a bdk just give them an external on pull or during a spike dmg event.
Bear and VDH are on par. I would say bear is actually better than BDK in terms of survivability and self-healing currently, especially in larger pulls.
I went into an 8 and pulled it like a +2 at sub-500 on a bear tank, last seasons 4 set, DPS trinkets. I would do ~300-500k HPS per pull, mostly after the wildfire and ursocs. The healer didn’t even need to look at me, despite being massively undergeared for the content.
I’ve seen bears recently that will do double or triple that with absorb tank trinkets, while still pulling DPS level damage numbers.
As a healer, I will say yes Tanks are incredibly self-sufficient, but you’re not going to comp a key if your healer sucks just because your tank is overtuned.
This hasn’t been unique to blood the entire expansion. I really wish people would get with the times. One of the reasons blood isn’t meta is because their niche is no longer a niche. Prot warriors have a similar amount of sustain, without the yo-yo or threat of being 1 shot while gathering.
The only tank that regularly needs outside help before the meta actually matters is monk. We’re talking 17-18.
DH no longer is forced to kite.
Bear absorbs a solid portion of all incoming damage.
Warriors are taking almost no damage and healing it through spending rage.
Paladins can just cd away most hits.
Then there’s Monks who have a more classic (Legion-SL) healing requirement and blood who is doing exactly the same as it always has.
All takes are a party unto themselves, which is why I stopped tanking. I like dynamic gameplay and since playing well means you just play a solo game, it’s not fun.
At least with dps you’re adapting to the tanks pulls from run to run and healing is the most dynamic role.
Do you guys remember the kiting meta in SL M+ dungeons? Even tanks were outgearing for SL M+ dungeons, they still can’t face trash mobs because if they don’t kite, they are 100% dead. No one ever wants that again and Blizzard learnt that kiting meta was one of the worst meta. Because they were opposite of what the tank was supposed to do.
Time til death could be made more longer for tanks but neelrf their sustain. So that having good sustain as a tank supports the healer. And big cooldowns used preemptively to reduce damage taken or to top yourself off before a big hit doesn’t stop a one shot but helps the healer manage the tanks health.