That was the short version?
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you do pathetic damage but its noticeable – omg nerf their damage!
you make healing boring – omg nerf their self-heals!
a couple of randoms chain pull and kill us all – omg nerf everything!
you’re not dying – omg nerf their survivability!
you keep dying – might as well nerf!
no one will ever be happy but right now, i am comfortable. i would really like to not be nerfed because of pvp or mythics, stuff I don’t even do. 
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Yup, kite meta is returning. It’s time to undo some of the mistake nerfs.
We won’t have healers soon either, things do so much damage they’re basically under duress, often from a combo of unavoidable insane damage or there being more critical casts than interrupts available. Some are hard CC. Either that or we’re gonna see a triple rogue meta soon.
Send help Blizz.
if the healer is supposed to be the key role of keeping the tank up, they should first be able to survive the 4-5 pack pull the tank pulled because timers are a thing. this IS a race.
if the Healer is supposed to be that level of responsible, after getting effectively nerffed by 40%, then they should have no excuse not to have the group alive. if something goes wrong, its the healers fault.
If casts go off that CC everyone, its the healers fault for not taking the interrupt to cover the inevetable over lap of cc.
if the tank dies 100-0 its not the tanks fault, its the damage reduction nerf or the healer for not being able to do a 180 from not needing to worry about the tank to living in constant fear of chain fears of them dying mid cast. 
and the tanks prob would have soloed the last few % of several Raid bosses already if they were not nerfed
I think it’s reasonable for a tank to be able to survive 3-4 packs at once.
However, I don’t think it’s reasonable for them to be able to easily hold aggro on 3-4 packs at once.
Make aggro matter again, good tanks with great aggro management will be able to do bigger pulls, inexperienced tanks will have to make smaller pulls.
Give all DPS/Healers a way to manage threat, either by dumping threat or transfering aggro.
Running dungeons slowly is not going to teach those players how to play their class if they don’t know the basics.
I think the problem right now is that if the tank exists they have aggro.
It’s near impossible to lose aggro in a semi competent group.
Make holding aggro on 2-3 mobs child’s play but anything above that needs some brain cells.
Give all DPS/Healers a threat dump or threat transfer.
I don’t believe the tanks job on trash should be “try not to die while everything in this room hits you”, it should be “Make sure nothing in this room hits anyone else”
Good tanks/groups will continue doing what they are doing, newer tanks/groups will have to slow down a little until they get better at aggro management.
I didn’t enjoy kite or die in SL, that by no means says I dont enjoy a challenge. If I wanted to be invincible to tank then I wouldn’t have my mage tower appearances.
So yeah, I’ll stay classy 
Don’t care, didn’t ask.
Mage Tower was easy after Antorus.
Stay basic.
So you’re just going to be that person on the forum…
sigh
Got the recent mage tower bear appearance without cheese gear as well… but you’ll find a way to dismiss that too I imagine.
Enjoy being…you
G’night
No, that’s clearly your role - and I wouldn’t dare think of taking it from you.
At least I’m safe from ever having the misfortune of you tanking in my group.
Hmm who came into a thread to directly talk trash. Oh yeah, wasnt me huh? Crazy.
Ya know, I’ve yet to ignore someone on the forum, but I think you’ll be my first.
Grats. Also, yeah I tank for friends… and that ain’t you babe 
G’night again.
Be better.
If the dungeons are too hard players could go raid instead?
Look, if the tank doesn’t need the healer, then the healer feels useless.
Your job is to reduce the incoming damage on yourself and hold threat on things, not to be a god damned self-sustaining one man army.
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Lightyears diff between the two. Cmon guy.
Lilith-I totally agree.
Here’s the rest of the story, us tanks spent how much time now rolling a tank, learning dungeons, planning routes, working with friends and groups to help each other gear, because Blizz seemingly fixed what was broken with tanks in prior recent xpac’s. Tanking was fun again. Not OP. It was right on target.
Now Blizz pulls the Bait-N-Switch on us. How long did Blizz spend testing prior to release. They should have made the changes in Beta instead of waiting a week after M+ launch.
I feel we were lied to, intentionally, to get people drawn in, and to get us in there under false pretenses.
Its extremely disappointing having the rug pulled out from under you like that.
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I believe something got lost in translation there, I never said they shouldn’t need a healer and be a “self-sustaining one man army” as you put it. - which most tanks that are unkillable in certain content also outgear that content.
I said not to be “totally reliant” on the healer.
Meaning, if I get smacked as a tank, I want the ability to handle that damage without my screen blinking red and hoping I don’t get another melee swing.
Ex: Early SL tanking - 5 or 6 melee swings that were synced up would obliterate some tanks back then.
In the difficulties that tanks are properly geared for, this is about where most tanks stand, they take the hit and can self heal to sustain a little while. Some are more bulletproof than others, and should be tuned down a bit (cough Warrior cough) Not by nerfing all tanks as they’ve done.
A prime example of what I don’t think tanks should be is Brewmaster. They can die through stagger from an elite mob, not even a boss. Let that one sink in.
As a pretty fresh bear I felt some bosses and trash smack me around a bit in normal and heroic. After getting up to around 380 item level, I don’t take enough damage to matter in those same dungeons. But I also outgear them by 20 item levels now.
Toss me into a M+ environment and I start feeling the pain again.
I really think perspective plays a big role in the topic, and tank gear vs dungeon level makes a massive difference. If the tanks are invincible now, just wait until they get into higher key levels and get smacked around again.
For anyone judging tank survivability off of Heroic dungeons and even M0, that isn’t the level tanks need to be tuned to imo.
I agree with you in principle, but until a non-tank player reaches the M+ level, more often than not their dungeon experience is miserable. It’s one thing for a tank to pull everything from boss to boss when everyone is staying alive, when they do it in a place where the entire party will die on the run, that’s a major issue. Perhaps the issue is the scaling of the content rather than the tank, but something in the ecosystem is out of whack. A freshly dinged max level tank should not be able to survive pulling 9 packs in a M0 with the full support of their team, much less 2 minutes after the team has died.
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There are definitely those kind of tanks. Frankly there always has been to some extent. Having a miserable experience is also subjective. It depends what kind of players they are and how adaptable they are.
For instance I dps’d an Azure Vault run yesterday where the tank did some knuckle head pulls like people are complaining about. I just followed along until they got them gathered up and popped cds to burn them down.
The times that this sucks is when tanks don’t know what they are pulling and you end up with several mobs that should be interrupted or cc’d in a pack. That can go south real quick. In that case, it’s just a bad move by the tank, or bad player in general.
I compare those kind of mistakes with the dps that don’t follow closely or avoid mobs and end up body pulling extra trash onto the group. Both are potentially disastrous depensing on how adaptable the group is.
Yes, but most times with the current tuning of tanks and the content, the tank isn’t punished for this unless the group kicks them. The group dies while the tank solos the pack/boss and can keep going if they so desire. There is no incentive for them to learn what does threaten them until they get to M+ where they very well could burn someone else’s key. The healers and DPS will be told to git gud, even though that level of content is where they’re supposed to learn how to do so.
The major difference is that unless your group bails you out, most times you get punished for those mistakes as the healer or DPS. The entire group may also suffer, but you won’t get off unscathed like a tank will for their mistakes.
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