Something needs to be done about players running dungeons or raids who gang up and votekick tanks for running a different path to bosses in the instance.
This has been an epidemic for years in this game when a tank goes a different route to another boss in some of the non-linear dungeons/raids. For example: Dragonflight Dungeon: The Nokhud Offensive - there is no set linear path to get to any of the bosses. A group of players can start at whichever boss they choose.
Yet, several players have decided that only one path to a boss is the only way to go and whenever the tank deviates from that “normal” path - the other remaining players votekick that tank from the dungeon instance, subsequently leaving the tank to suffer a 30 minute “Dungeon Deserter” debuff for no valid reason.
This is unaccpetable behavior by the other players and it is unfair to that votekicked tank to suffer for 30 minutes not to be able to requeue for another dungeon. This allowed behavior has long since been toxic in the game and something should seriously be done about it.
A player who is falsely votekicked should be able to report those who did the votekicking especially if it was not for a valid reason. Going a different route to another boss is not considered a valid reason to be votekicked from the instance.
For 15 years I have watched other tanks and also suffered as a tank from these types of toxic votekicks. 30 minutes of not being able to requeue for no apparent reason is horrible and does not promote the game play rules set forth by Blizzard.
I don’t see any problem with the other players votekicking the tank in the scenario you described. If one person wants to do it a certain way, and 3 or 4 people want to do it a different way, those 3 or 4 people should overrule the one person. It’s the most fair way to handle things.
The person who gets kicked has not really lost anything, they can just requeue for another dungeon in 15 minutes or whatever. There’s nothing really at stake here.
The valid reason is that the majority of the group no longer wanted that player in the group any longer. That is the only requirement for a vote kick.
It’s not. If the majority of the group doesn’t want someone else to be with them anymore, it is entirely acceptable for them to kick that person. It’s why the feature was added.
A player can’t be falsely votekicked.
You don’t get to decide whether a reason is valid. It only needs to be valid for the majority of the group.
That may not be considered a valid reason by you, but it is absolutely a valid reason if the group wants to go one way and one player is refusing to cooperate.
There is a reason, and you’ll need to specifically cite the rules you think are being broken. I suspect you’re superimposing your own ideas in place of actual printed rules. If you have read rules, read them again, because you have very badly misunderstood them.
I disagree. If you are a casual player and don’t pay attention to the MDI or even run M+ at all. Let the tank do the route they want it’s really not that much of a time difference. This is LFD not a +20.
You don’t seem to understand how long a zone can be with an inexperienced, pushy tank. If the super optimized lfd route takes 10m to complete and some clown wants to single pull every pack in the zone were talking about a 5-6x time investment.
The biggest time sucks I’ve experienced were folks who tried too hard to skip packs, ended up pulling more, wiping the group and running back. Had we handled the groups in a more controlled fashion, that would have been what 2-5 min difference with no deaths? But my repair bill to the min-max gods was a sacrifice they were willing to make I guess.
Then you’ve experienced absolutely nothing. The example provided by OP is NO, so I’ll use that. Going mounds first adds at least 20m for absolutely no min-max reason whatsoever. If a tank took it upon themselves to fly to that area of the dungeon and the other 4 flew to the dragon boss, booting that person is the right call.
The person is clearly not on the same page and majority rules.
Idk a single player who talks about a repair bill as a big deal.
There’s nothing about someone who decides to roll a tank, instead of any other role, that gives them more authority to decide what the group should do. If the tank wants to do something other than what the rest of the group wants, I don’t see any reason not to vote the tank out.
If you’re being vote kicked you’re doing normal or heroic, so who cares? People usually do those dungeons quickly to level up or finish a quest. If the group says they want to go one way I would usually oblige or convince them otherwise. Not really sure why you’d start anywhere but on dragon boss in NO, but it’s not much difference either way. If you’re talking about not doing the skip for last boss that’s a huge waste of time and you should just learn the skip because you’ll be doing it in keys anyway.
Normal and heroics are pointless now except for fast XP. So if the tank is going one way, and everyone else wants to go another way maybe the tank should listen.
In m+ its hardly an issue and good tanks talk about the route before it starts.
Can’t lie a tank deserves to be booted if he’s not in tank spec, if he’s running so far ahead others are dying or not even able to contribute at all to whatever’s happening.
Don’t care how geared or how much of a VIP he thinks he is either
People absolutely VTK for extremely poor reasons. I’ve seen people try to kick for server, for “because why not”, or even not skipping certain mobs. I know you will disagree, which is fine, but there are many VTKs that are a gross misuse of the system.
It’s often time longer yes, but not by that much. If your group is slower it tends to take 10-15 more minutes. I get wanting to speed through it but heaven forbid someone went a bit slower. If I hate the pace I leave, if not I just deal with it. I’m not going to kick someone for going slower than I like, unfortunately there are a fair few who do.
They are normal and heroic dungeons, you run into a wide variety of people, just try to be nice to your fellow players.
Sure, that’s a subjective assessment, so there’s all sorts of room for interpretations of whether the reasons people voted to kick are poor or not.
This isn’t correct however. The system is to allow a majority in the group to remove someone they don’t want in the group anymore. If that’s what it’s being used for then it is use of the system not misuse of the system.
There are no guidelines or rules for when someone can kick. It’s intentionally open ended, and while you may disapprove of any number of reasons that people have or even no reason at all, as long as a majority of the group agree then they have met the only necessary requirement. Too often people attempt to assign some sort of value judgement on something that is a strict majority mechanic.
You have no business calling 10 to 15 min more a bit. A bit would be tail pulling an extra mob or pack. A bit is when someone dcs and you wait for them to come back. A bit is when you get confused that you were supposed to take the third left and not the 4th.
This reads as “be kind to those who aren’t kind to you”.
Everyone who commented has a point to their own view of this topic.
The bottom line is thus: Outside of a timed mythic dungeon - what does it matter what order the bosses are killed in a non-linear set? The true point is that all the bosses die period. Time factor in doing so is up to the players who are either skilled, geared or knowledgeable.
So why fault a tank for doing something different and out of the ordinary of the so called “normal” of the masses? And you people wonder why it’s so hard to get any tanks to queue for random dungeons or pug raids?
Kicking a tank from an instance because he/she went a different route to whatever boss is not a valid reason, it is totally unfair and childish at best. It needs to stop.
So first off it’s not hard to get a tank to queue, I’ve actually seen CTA for dps a few times lately.
Second, if you’re ignoring the group and wasting their time you get kicked, it’s that simple. If you want to take your time, great, but other people don’t so you get kicked. If you want a slow group make one outside of dungeon finder. Otherwise expect that people will be annoyed when you take 30 minutes on a normal.
Make whatever excuses you want, but the common factor here is you.
Please get this through your head: there is no such thing as a “valid reason”. If 3 or more people want someone out of the group then they are out. That’s it. The reason is completely irrelevant. The vote to kick system isn’t based on any kind of assessment. It is 100% solely based on if a majority doesn’t want someone in the group. For any reason at all.
