I think this can be true for warrior/bear tanks but not so much for paladins. People typically just assume bears/warriors are going to hold threat on +5 mobs like a paladin would so they just start aoeing like crazy. Paladins usually don’t have this issue and will usually only see it when there’s a big gear difference.
I think I disagree with this for the most part. There are plenty of over-eager dps players, but there are also a lot of tanks that don’t do things to alleviate issues before they happen. A big example is target marking. Most pug tanks I play with don’t mark targets. If you’re not marking kill targets can you really get mad at DPS for not watching threat?
Additionally, how are you communicating with what you’re trying to do in a dungeon? Do the dps know you’re trying to LOS? Are you telling them what you’re pulling? Are you saying to attack skull then x or are you just assuming they know what you’re thinking? Maybe you are or maybe you aren’t. Regardless, players shouldn’t be held accountable for things they simply don’t know.
Lastly, if a dps is making your job harder you have two options… 1. Let them reap what they sow or 2. Call them out on it. Either way, it’s not your fault and it’s not your responsibility if they are performing in a way that isn’t conductive to the flow of the group. But again, if you aren’t communicating you have no right to get angry.
I find this part a little disingenuous. It’s highly nuanced, but as the tank you have every opportunity to control situations and avoid issues. I don’t see it as tank abuse and more so lack of communication. People don’t tank because they do not want the inherent responsibility of leading or communicating in a group setting and not because they are being “abused”.
While you’re not wrong about the supply and demand concept here, you’d be remiss to think it’s not a problem. Players charging gold for everything has gotten out of control, and this shouldn’t be dismissed as “semantics.”
It’s semantics whether you want to call it providing a service or performing a role.
And it’s not like there’s some grand monopoly to only tank for pay, the tanks people are paying are over geared and wouldn’t be running the instance at all otherwise. So the group gets an easy run with an over geared tank without having to wait and the tank of course gets paid. Not really seeing a problem.
Anyone that charges to tank or reserves items is a straight degenerate, and nearly universally terrible actual tanks to boot.
My experience in this game over the years is that the tank is more likely than not the toxic player in the group, simply because they walk in with an overinflated sense of entitlement from the start… Though exceptionally well geared dps aren’t all that far behind, particularly once they hit that gear threshhold where they could theoretically tank it themselves, and especially if the tank is a weaker tank.
The fact that you can demand money for playing your role doesn’t mean that your role is a service. The oldest industry in human history comes to mind as an example.
I mean sure, but I don’t think we’re talking about non-standard cases where people are spending extra hours to complete content because they don’t have the traditional setup of roles.
The lines can be blurred between the specific roles like performing a role without the correct spec or gear, or perhaps multiple people sharing a specific role, but if you’re doing level and gear-appropriate content you’re not going to be able to get by completely lacking any of the single roles unless you’re playing in a very inefficient and non-standard way. Like taking five times longer to clear because you can only pull mobs one at a time.
People are also exceptionally toxic to tanks, especially new ones. Turns people away when dps are going off the rails because they cant adapt to a tank that wants to take things slower than usual.
I’d imagine that also makes some tanks toxic as well. Toxicity has a way of spreading itself.
good tanks get whatever they want, bad tanks get bullied into dps specs, and im alright with that.
Good tanks will not look for groups, they will build their own groups, with people they know are good, and wont make it slow and grueling run.
Good tanks are way past the content your currently in, and have no reason to do that content besides for profit. i.e. I dont need SSC but ill tank a ssc GDKP, i dont need anything from heroics, unless im paid to run a heroic, but even then its not worth the time since the group is probably bad.
I don’t mind letting people die. I get some mild satisfaction from DPS going hard immediately and dying. It’s even better when it upsets them enough that they leave and then we finish the dungeon without issue.
4/27 - I tanked 5-main runs all through Legion as a BM Hunter.
Growl for taunt
Misdirect (to pet) for aggro control
Pet Move To for facing
Pet Mend/Exhilliaration for healing
Raise Pet for unlimited battle rez
I had little trouble with the gap between pet death and resurection because I stayed far enough away that my pet was back up and attacking before the mob (or pack) got to me.
I really wish Blizzard would offer a formal Tank role for BM Hunter because its lack and the existence of specific tank mechanics was all that kept me from tanking raids that way.
Then you don’t understand the oldest profession in history. When the demand exceeds the willing supply additional incentive can be added to increase supply.
I mean maybe someone’s tired, or they know the group asking isn’t really packing the equipment for a mutually satisfying performance, well a little gold might make them over look those things.
At the end of the day you’re asking someone to do something they otherwise wouldn’t be doing, why does giving them some compensation bother you? Are you saying everyone who can tank should be forced to tank whenever they see someone asking for it?
I have been a tank main for years and this is the first time in my life ive just swapped to dps. The “tank abuse” as mentioned really isn’t much worse than it has been over the years, but im just kinda over dealing with entitled people every time I play now.
Constantly having dps pop cooldowns, consumes, and burst before i even TOUCH a mob. Then I am promptly told how awful a tank I am because I didn’t anticipate a whole pack of mobs running away from me mid-charge. You are berated for not tanking exactly how the dps and healers want you to. They frequently run ahead of you pulling more mobs (usually incorrectly) occasionally wiping the group and blame the tank again for not having cooldowns or abilities ready to handle mobs that they didn’t even pull.
And sadly, this is the NORM for behavior in dungeons as well.
Believe it or not, most of us seasoned tanks know EXACTLY what we are doing.
If I am pulling slow or differently its because of one of the following reasons:
Dps is lower than normal.
I am waiting for the necessary cooldowns to finish (usually need 5-7 seconds).
Healer is a bit slower on upkeep or distracted.
I wanted to take a sip of water.
I want to pull one pack because I know I plan to pull 2-3 packs once a defensive cooldown is ready.
One party member whispered me saying they would be afk for moment.
I see a pat coming and I am unsure if dps will kill current mobs fast enough.
I am not entirely confident in a pull due to being severely outgeared by 1-2 dps in the group.
The next 1-2 packs are primarily magic damage and I don’t have proper mitigation for multiple packs of them.
One of the party members informed me before start that they are new.
My kid nose-dived off her bunk bed.
My wife forgot her keys and couldn’t get in the front door.
------- and the list can go on and on. usually, tanks are expected to manage the entire run while everyone else responds to how it is being run.
As Tank, I have aggro on all of these. I may not be at the top of their tables, but I have aggro.
The DPS (and often the healer) apparently don’t because as soon as the regular mobs are dead and whatever is on them specficially is dead, they mount up and run.
I
Can’t
If
I
Have
Aggro.
Kill the darned things.
You’re gonna have to either wait for me to kill them (tanks don’t always have the best cleave or dps numbers) or wait for me to walk to you (or walk until they’re all dead) so you’re actually SLOWING US DOWN by running away and leaving me with the residual Shades.
I dont really MIND slowing down, but then rushing the next pull “because the tank is slow” is a bit odd.
I am NOT burning my “get away so you can drop Necrotic Wound” cooldown to rush up to join a bunch of guys who just left me to clean up their mess while they ran ahead.
Oh, and my favorite when I ask for control over the pulls in instances is “Calm down, you can handle 60 stacks just fine” (as my health bar plummets to zero in about 10 seconds the first time I tried that).
God i wish tanks would quit complaining. “WaH! ThEy PuLlEd AgGrO”
yeah, so? go get it back and keep me from taking damage while i dps the mobs.
Useless creatures tanks are they’re lucky that they’re required to do group content or they wouldnt get invited to begin with. So just be lucky you’re in the presence of dps and take the hits.
Idk, about tanks getting blamed or picked on, but I see this all the time. It is why tanks are the hardest to pug. It isn’t new folks either. A lot of the time it is just impatient DPS. I feel bad for any tank learning their job.
