In the general talents, the new talents gloom ward and insidious chill are talents that are not so good for raid and mythics, maybe for pvp they are good but they should not be in the branch of general talents.
I don’t saying that those new talents I,ll no take but I don’t have any other better talent to pick
dk frost has talents that are very weak compared to talents from other classes like monk evoker and warrior for example
it’s time for old talents to return that make dk frost feel like a class that has more to offer( another point, idk why other clases has more 55 talents to choose and some other like dk frost has just 40 talents for choose that’s unfair)
the off hand does 75% more damage
let howling blast work with KM and frost strike
have 3 diseases and obliterate does 12.5% more damage for each disease on the target
In my opinion, with these new talents that I propose, the DK Frost would be a more fun class
Good news if you want a better Frost DK talent.
It is stated from their HoW change from general class tree that it will be moved into the Frost DK tree and stated that the current version of it is not final.
i like gloom ward and insidious chill tho
really hope that the current state of the power level of soul reaper and placement of unleashed frenzy isn’t final
It could also mean they just add horn and that’s it though >_<
Yeeeeah that’s how too many people work’s they say we will fix the frost dk and just move one talent to a baseline 
I hope frost dk must has for dragonflight a rework of so many talents and so many new talents
I have to disagree with you specifically about the new talents. 20% reduced attack speed for bosses is big raid utlity. That is a lot of damage mitigated for your tanks just by taking the talent.
15% increased asorbs for blood is especially good because of mastery.
But even as dps, bringing the auto attack speed debuff is fantastic.
The 15% asorbs is a lot better than you think. It will make your ams stronger, which combined with the other ams talent you can potentially soak some really great magic damage. It also makes the perafrost talent stronger as well. They are solid additions.
I think it’ll live & die based on its interaction with the Death Pact healing absorb. Even ignoring that, it’s a solid talent for DKs.
Right right I don’t have any disappointments to your conclusion cause you’re right
But my point is in the dk general talents tree we have a lot of talents for blood dk a lot of defensive and some other icy talons empowerment rune weapon and runic attenuation… nothing more, I got that those talent are for a general tree or dk but for real the frost dk need some other new talent for dps and no more for tank ( just in general talents tree just the left way of frost)
I really hope this also means that Permafrost cap is increased that the tooltip fails to mention.
Can I ask why?
I doubt insidious chill will work on bosses, So it’s a defensive bonus for trash that you won’t see unless you’re tanking, marginally useful against some melee classes in PvP.
Gloom Ward effects only Anti-Magic Shell, Blood Shield and I guess Rune of Spellwarding plus whatever healing absorbs. So it’s a talent thats main strength comes from pairing with a specific class (disc priest). You should not have talents tied to working optimally from an external source imo.
It would be like if the warrior Dev made a talent that made paladins flash of light grant the warrior 20 rage, that’s going to pigeon hole them.
Tombstone and Permafrost as well.
Ok so Permafrost will go from 20% of HP absorb to 23% of HP.
Tombstone from 30% of HP shield to 34.5% of HP shield.
Anti-Magic Shell absorbs Total health * 30 / 100 * (1 + 20% versatility in this example) * 1.
So for 100k health you’ll go from 36k AMS to 41.4K.
Not really worth investing a point imo when there are better options still left on the table. However if your goal is maximising defensive capability then it’s better than nothing. Rare are fights that tanks would ever prioritise defence over offensive power, especially with such a miniscule increase for Gloom Ward.
Please correct me if my math is wrong, definitely not my strongest ability.
I agree the 15% seems pretty lacklustre for a talent point spend. It has more benefit for blood DK for sure, but as dps we are better off taking the leech.
Don’t warlocks get the same debuff but a more powerful one (~25%) that will make our one worthless?
don’t warlocks also get a better version of permafrost? ranged cloth wearer amirite
They have it at 20% as well if I recall correctly. They can only have 1 curse active though. We can put this debuff on literally anything we attack. Most raid fights are rarely single target only.
If you are talking about Curse of Weakness, it is indeed a 20% AS decrease. While this ability is baseline, it costs a global that I sometimes forget to use (Bad, I know). It is indeed very useful in raids (Esp ST) as it lasts for 2 minutes.
Soul Leech go brrrrrrr.
But for real though, while Warlocks (especially Demo) are very durable for cloth wearers, they are one of the most immobile classes in the game. They don’t have much immunities that deny mechanics either.
But man do I wish Permafrost is as good as Soul Leech though. Making shield off of AA seems very odd to me and even more odd that they add stuff that is applied from AA such as insidious chill.
but they’re like 600 kilometers away from the boss
That’s what ranged does. They attack from distance. A natural advantage over melee.
then why do they get a better version of permafrost when we’re in melee