Think this is more of a spec by spec (and occasional class tree) problem then something that needs a big overhaul for everyone.
Like guardian and brew definitly have too many underwhelming or filler talents and too few good options, so they could use the % prune and some new interesting stuff in its place.
Most other spec trees ive dug through are pretty good about it though, theyve got some major passives for people who dont like cooldown heavy playstyles and the boring % ones are where you put points for pathing or case by case.
I donât really see the downside there. I donât think its bad for an MMORPG to still have a few small traces of RPG character design left. That should be a part of the genre. Having options if you donât like the meta build is a good thing.
The problem is not with the customization. I frequently toy around with talents and only occasionally copy talent builds from icy veins or wowhead. The problem is that a talent build that worked for me a month ago or even three weeks ago seems to shift and I have to adjust it again, probably due to hotfixes or what have you.
But if you do a talent build entirely off your own whims, itâs possible (or even probable) to be missing a big chunk of dps output. So I try to both follow the recommended talents and microadjust them, depending on the toon.
So I like the customization, but itâs a bit unmanageable on a lot of toons to micro-tweak talents frequently.
I have never felt the need to do this. I try out different things. But Iâm not running high keys or Mythic raids for it to matter. I donât think most are. So this isnât something I would think a large chunk of the playerbase is doing.
Itâs possibleâI have different builds for different activities, but notice when something is working worse than before. Again, I donât think we have too many talents. Itâs just right. But the talent builds are where I sometimes have issues.
Unmanageable is a pretty strong word. I deviate from the guide builds a bit because I donât play at high levels and sometimes they arenât the best for lower keys where things die faster.
But I donât find myself adjusting them frequently, and honestly Iâm excited when thereâs a shakeup in a build that usually has felt stale for months.
Everyone is different, itâs just an observation on how I find the builds. Iâm not advocating for changing things.
But for example I found the demo lock talent build particularly unsuitable last season, so switched it back to what I had before trying the icy veins version.
In BFA and SL there was less they could mess up, now they could really mess up their talents and cap their characterâs potential way lower than before. That or theyâre using the meta builds which are full of little minmaxy things but theyâre managing none of it.
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Itâs a bit hard to argue it these days with how slimmed down leveling is â but one of the reasons I like bigger talent trees, even if they include a good amount of âfillerâ % increase talents (not that itâs anything like it was in Classic-WotLK right now), is that it provides a reward for leveling every level.
A major problem with the MoP era talent trees is that with the distribution of abilities you earn as you level up, some classes would go 15 levels with absolutely ZILCH to show for it, and then theyâd get a utility talent row theyâd never actually use while leveling.
MASSIVE gaps.
Leveling feels better when you get something for leveling other than your gear becoming less effective. Even if itâs small.
What they need to do is remove the historic key class and spec abilities from the trees and make them base line, then make the trees the special abilities weâve picked up over the years as well as those abilities that altered how abilities worked and basic passives .
The only trouble with the trees is having all base spells in them
Many specs are unfinished because Blizzard did such a bad job on them during the Dragonflight class redesign.
And Guardian & Brewmaster are especially noteworthy.
The Brewmaster tree is so bad that you could eliminate the top 4 rows, freeing up 9 talent points to spend, and it wouldnât even matter because thereâs nothing in the talent tree worth taking.
The first thing they need to do is fix the specs that arenât even finished.
If they pruned the redundant stuff out of the Assassination tree youâd have like 10 talents left. All the Garrote things can be 1 talent, all the Shiv stuff can be 1, Fan of Knives doesnât need its own talent, etc, etc.
Having a bunch of talents that augment something that you only use every minute is so lame (Kingsbane).
As it is I definitely just icy veins (insert whatever website you prefer here) copy paste, but by having so many points and choices you do get a progression sense.
Wonder if there would be success with taking a Hero Talents approach to the tree, where for a time you WONT have it complete, and by the end you will be left with basic stuff taken, because theyâre all taken by the end, and then the choices (nodes that have multiple choices).
Which does bring you back to the simpler trees of before (which I wasnât playing back then, just I can use google lol).
There is a special sort of âeven when youâre winning youâre losingâ though because if the choices donât matter the system is silly, and if the choices matter someone is going to be annoyed that they matter.
I do note that some classes (only played a few) appear to suffer from bad choices more than others, thanks to copy paste I do okay with that, but I could imagine someone making a real face desk of a build that feels terrible and is terrible. Maybe if they had Hero Talents meets Big Tree, you could marry progression with big ticket choices.
At max level you could collapse the tree down like you can with hero talents, and at that point you can tell its a bit like the simple trees in certain previous expansions⌠Because youâd have core nodes that youâd have options on.
Then again maybe being able to fail so hard makes choices more valuable? It just means to me that I need to go to an outside website to copy paste though lol.
