My first reaction of playing the PTR for the first time:
There is way too much going on with the new talent trees. The icons are too small and it all feels squished. The best way I can describe it is information overload.
I wish there were a way to hide my class specialization and just look at 1 tree at a time.
What are your initial thoughts?
For classes i know, i would say i found them very straightforward and made sense.
For classes i do not know, theyre a load of giberish and none of it makes sense.
(Very glad they have preset talent loadouts)
I would definitely want to level a new class instead of boost one with these trees.
But other than that, i think theyre great.
I agree, although mostly just because I hate the talent page covering my entire screen.
This is definitely true. For classes I havenât played in a while like hpal I had no idea what I was looking at
I think they are a step in the right direction. I was never a fan of the talent tree we currently use, it always felt way diminished in so many ways. And when they really stopped adding layers too it when you hit max level. It lost its feeling of accomplishment and empowerment.
The new one returns to the old-fashioned style where each time you level up, youâre rewarded with points to spend and choices to make on how you want your character to develop. It will take time for some to get used to the change, and of course there will soon to be the cookie cutter postings of what are considered the best ideas of what to pick for each class under each style of play.
What youâre saying is that each time you level up, you must go to an outside website and see if they have recommendations that seem to make sense for your character.
Yeah, a lot of players will find it a huge negative having to stop playing the game and do research every time they level up.
I like the talent tree concept, i just hate the rogue common tree.
The average player it wont matter what they pick on the talent tree enough for them to go outside to a web page to Min/Max themselves. Fact is I just tossed in myself on Beta talents I felt that upped my dps as a BM Hunter for both single and aoe targets, and ended up in general content to totally face roll things. It is not rocket science to figure out.
Talents donât really matter that much while youâre leveling. And I tend to think that most players have the reading comprehension abilities and critical thinking skills sufficient enough to pick mostly useful talents for their journey to 70.
You just said that every time a player levels they need to make a choice. Why did you word it this way if now you are saying itâs not true?
The in-game information players have access to, who do not visit websites to do online research for choices⌠Itâs usually misleading. The current talent system has tooltips to ostensibly âhelpâ players make a choice, tooltips that make all choices sound equally good. But in fact, those talent choices that sound equally useful in a row may include one that almost everyone takes, one that is situationally useful, and one that no one would ever choose if they knew how misleading that tooltip is.
Important info is deliberately left out. And in many cases, players have no idea that they need to be asking certain questions before making an irrevocable choice.
And if you think most players are motivated enough to visit multiple outside websites and do enough testing and math to duplicate information that is available in guides for free, you are delusional. The fact that people are using websites to make even the most rudimentary of decisions makes them above average.
FACT: Most players donât use meters. When Iâm playing a twink in a low level dungeon and doing crazy damage, players with meters notice and say something. Players without meters donât realize what is happening. They just see the dungeon going smoothly and say âgjâ at the end.
Getting a whisper or hearing a comment about level 10âs happens maybe 1 in every 20 dungeons.
You are way overstating what the average player is going to get out of the information that is available in the game. If you are an experienced theorycrafter and think 100% of players in the game should be, too, thatâs just a non reality based opinion.
I have mixed feelings about them. Iâm excited to get talent trees back, because i enjoy toying around with builds to find what clicks with me. That discovery is worth the expansion price alone for me. Iâm not one who leans heavily on icy veins or other players to tell me how to build my character, because figuring that out is most of the fun.
The part I feel bad about is losing access to abilities. Abilities and effects from Legion, BFA, and Shadowlands .ay be found in your talent tree, but you canât use many of them at the same time like you could when the expansion was current
Can you provide an example in the current talent trees or the DF talent trees where the talent tooltip is misleading?
Talents are not irrevocable, you can change them for free in any major city, and you can swap between loadouts with a tome.
Okay? Nobody is checking the talents of a level 18 arcane mage who is decimating the dungeon.
I honestly donât think I am, I think most players are able to read a tool tip, think about the abilities that they use while leveling and make a choice based on that. Whether itâs âoptimalâ is largely irrelevant for leveling.
From prepatch you can change your talents anywhere in the world for free without tomes.
(Not in the middle of a mythic+ run though)
Itâs ok pea brain. You can just look up what to do on wowhead like always.
Hell no. Play your way. Or play with guides. Your choice. That is the whole point. 
Leveling really isnât tuned that tight. Spend the points however you want, or just dump them into random nodes, and when you hit level cap, if youâre that concerned about it, look up a guide and follow it. For the rest? Itâs leveling, not mythic raiding.
That this is exactly what we needed and itâs extremely easy to figure out.
You have your generic tree and your spec tree. Each one gives you three paths with some intertwining abilities along the way.
Itâs much more engaging and rewarding for leveling and it brought back abilities that some of us have missed being removed. It gives some better choices and isnât braindead mindless âpick 7 things zzzzzzzzzâ unrewarding that doesnât grow with us. This new system grows with us, the way it should.
Or use your own brain to choose what you want.
No one has to do this. If they choose to be min/maxers while leveling, thatâs their own fault.
Thereâs no need for that. People have basic education, meaning theyâre able to read, do math, and test hypothesis. If youâre playing youâre character, youâll know by reading the talents which ones jive with you the most. If your choices dont feel right, you can change your talents at any time to try something new.
If you have to look it up, SIM it, or look at meters to tell the difference, then there wasnât much of a difference to begin with
Sure. Based on the same quality of misleading and incomplete information that currently makes 3 talents sound equally good, despite the fact that one is worse than having no talent chosen.
Iâm sure you would never even read those tooltips. So it wouldnât affect you, right?
Yep. Everyone should make their choices based on their gut feelings, based on zero real information.
If you canât read and decide what you want, thatâs your problem.
Youâre leveling, not Mythic raiding. Letâs get some perspective.
If the talent trees arenât bad enough, you gotta spend all day working it to use ALL available points before you can save.
Fun stuff, so excitingâŚ