The 10.0 talent tree feels like “here are all the things you used to get baseline; choose the ones you no longer will have.”
Once again, I level up and get weaker.
Solution ideas:
- Make more core abilities baseline.
- Remove the required “lines” or “tracks” between the talents. So it turns into “you can put 8+ points in the top group… that opens up the next group where you can put 12+ points… etc.”
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While I’m at it, Grappling Hook is IMO the most fun mobility spell in the game. Please make it available for all rogues, not just outlaw.
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The general talent tree looks great IMO, you can now have both gouge, garrote and other poisons for all three specs. What i dislike on the other hand are some of the weird placements of talents, which are must have, to get into further talent tree.
I agreed tho with making more core abilities baseline, for example Seal fate at the bottom doesn’t make any sense as its mandatory core baseline since vanilla for assa and should be still while other specs have little to zero value from it.
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Definitely need to move some abilities up the tree or made to baseline. Seal Fate and Venemous Wounds have been such key abilites for assassination they are baked into the spec at the moment. On the new talent tree they are deeeep in the rogue tree and assassin tree respectively. So you are forced to take certain routes to make sure you arent energy starved or combo point starved.
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I’d love some new stuff but this feels like a shakeup they can build on over time.
Perhaps adding new abilities for each spec while also adding a new class would have been too much – or too much of a risk; they need to make this work, first.
Yeah, I was put off by them dumping our talent book into trees, but this could make levelling feel much better. You’re not just given stuff, it’s not a mindless spread from 1 to 70 or whatever.
Just the positive spin I’ve been grasping at because I also wanted more new stuff and less “hey this used to be free, now pay for it” stuff.
I do really like the new talent system. I just feel some critical talents are much further down the tree than they should be. Ie. Some talents are important to us, but have been placed deep in the tree to make them artificially feel powerfull… is the best way to describe it I guess?
Take lethality and alacrity for example (I wanna stick to rogue tree as this wasnt a sin thread as such), both very powerful talents at same level on the tree. Lethality is super powerful, but not necessary in every build, a very nice to have talent that adds flavour to crit heavy builds and synergy. Alacrity on the other hand is critical to keeping the flow and and flow of most specs, just about a must have. Putting is so deep doesnt make it an interesting choice, it just makes me think there is something fun and new i wont be trying, because in my build im thinking about maintaining energy gen - vigor or venemous wounds, cp gen - seal fate and flow - alacrity. So then i think maybe something like alacrity doesnt necessarily need to be baseline, but maybe belongs a lot higher up in the combat line of the tree.
Yep, it’s stupid and awful.
I’m pretty annoyed that restless blades is gated behind the abomination that is roll the bones. The talent system supposed to afford choice, but they seem determined to make sure playing an old combat rogue remains impossible.
5 Likes
(1) It feels bad spending talent points to regain spellbook abilities we’ve had since the beginning of the game.
(2) The leveling experience is irrelevant at this point in the lifecycle of the game. The leveling experience flies by so quickly and is so incoherent that granulating the talent system to such an extent is pointless. Far more relevant are build changes at endgame, and this system is at once more cumbersome and shows no signs of being any better balanced than seven rows of three talents.
(3) The Kyrian ability at the end of the middle row of the basic tree feels awful and too different from the abilities on either side. Give it to outlaw or something. Blargh.
The only spec that loses anything is Sub and they already said they’re reworking the tree. For Sin/Law the trees are disgusting and you’re only gaining lol.
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We were literally able to keep mode abilities baseline than any other class so far because of how well so many of our spells go with our identity. Your post doesnt even give any valid criticisms. Maybe you ahould instead look at the new possibilities and combinations. I made a post highlighting a few.
Agreed, we can mix in depending in what we value for ourselves.
Years ago, we couldn’t get some abilities until past 22 (vanish I think was around there). Now you can be level 10 and start building your kit.
These are more skill trees, not necessarily talents and people are looking at it wrong. We didn’t lose anything, they just gave us points to dictate what we find useful to ourselves.
This is a mix between new and old and it is solid. Can’t have everything and that is good, a trade off should be made. It took this long to get our kit back and options to deal damage instead of 7 talents and nonsense specializations overriding what we are. We are rogues, we use our ENTIRE kit.
I came back in Legion and was pretty angry with how far they stripped everyone and our rogue tools.
What exactly is sub losing lol?
We gain garrote, gouge, big wound poison, cold blood, 2nd vanish etc
Hopefully some of this stuff makes sub an actual dps spec and not a support spec for fire mages
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Yeah we aren’t losing anything, just people whining about not having “everything”. We can literally build our own kit from the amount of choices. We get all of our crap back rightfully so as rogues.
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My post is from a PVE perspective as is most of this thread. Sorry, I forgot that people actually willingly play PVP in this game. They’re still changing the talent tree anyways.
PVE is such dull scripted content that is about waiting for that one idiot in you group to not F up.
Also pvpers can Pve but pvers can’t pvp lol
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Definitely not true but ok
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People who are complaining about talents trees really don’t comprehend how much more fun and engaging this will be. It’s going to be interesting to have a shadow dance build as assassination. How about a build that has Vigor, Marked for Death AND Deeper Stratogem.
Someone above mentioned Alacrity as being crucial. The only reason players take it is because SimCraft says the others are a DPS loss. Which is currently true for most talents. You pick the one that has the best DPS advantage. This will most like also be true in Dragon Flight. There will that one build that gives maximum DPS.
However, the proposed talents offer enough choices where you can customize your play style and still have competitive DPS.
Coming from someone who used to spend a lot of gold changing talents and specs, talent trees will be way more fun.
Unfortunately thats not realistic lmao.
On a side note im really not a fan of the cold blooded/mfd row. Feel like those should be branch talents, not talents on the way to the capstones. Same with improved sap
Sure it is: https://www.wowhead.com/beta/talent-calc/rogue/assassination/BOFVURRERUgJFzBEANVaoEQUBgUBQ8QA
You can get all three and still a few points to play with.
Yeah i made a mistake and reviewed it. Its actually easiest if you go with the middle tree which i hadnt played around with cause i dont like most of those talents.