That part in particular, which I don’t think I’m allowed to quote on the forums, is in poor taste, because Anduin is a captive of Sylvanas. I have always found that ship gross. It’s out of character for Sylvanas as well.
These were in no way shape or form meant to be an attack and I don’t like that you are only using parts of the quotes in order to make them look bad.
1st quote- I am not denying that Blizzard a scumbags and that their treatment of women isn’t disgusting, however we have never had a good portrayal of NFs in WoW and the writing has been pretty bad all around since WotLK ended where they pretty much used up all of their WC3 characters. If you could elaborate on why you believe that the poor treatment of NFs can be tied to sexism we could have a discussion.
2nd quote- I ended up agreeing with you.
3rd quote- You are entitled to an opinion. You are free to empathize with Sylvanas, I don’t see what is wrong with that statement.
4th quote- I was a bit tongue and cheek there but I will stand with what I said, people hatting Maiev has nothing to do with her gender and like I have said earlier I hate brushing off criticism of characters with “you just hate her because she is a woman”.
I am not making you side with anyone, but I am inviting you to have a discussion because of those topics you listed seem interesting.
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I think Nixxiom was ridiculing that shipping, not endorsing it.
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Apparently if you dislike Sylvanas it can’t be because
You’re a person who sees her as morally bankrupt.
You’re a religious person who’s horrified by someone sending innocent souls to hell.
You’re someone who’s been abused, bullied, or discriminated against and believe it doesn’t excuse doing so on others.
You’re someone who’s survived genocide, or know someone who’s been affected by it.
You’re a horde fan who’s been dragged into an awful narrative for one character. Again.
You’re an alliance fan that’s tired of watching this villain get away with everything.
Nope. It’s only because you hate women. Lord help you if you’re a woman.
It’s like me saying any black person who condemns R.Kelly hates their own race.
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Maybe its just projection.
Their dislike of other female characters is based on sexism so they can’t really wrap their head around someone doing what they view as similar without resorting to the same methods.
The dislike towards Jaina and Tyrande was so vitriolic by certain players it shocked me couple years ago and it still persists to a certain degree. And the worst crime these characters did was actually verbalized their pain and loss towards the characters and faction most responsible.
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Okay…
So I think it’s both, in fact, the two go hand in hand. In WoW we saw a relaxation of 10,000+ years of strict gender roles. We see multiple male characters in positions of power and authority despite that being rare in Kaldorei society since the days of Azshara. I think part of that is a failure to understand the Kaldorei as a race, ending up with Prince Farondis, Tortheldrian, Ravencrest, Jarrod Shadowsong, who should be outliers, but communicate to us that such was the norm. I do think that has something to do with the people at Blizzard having a hard time with recognizing women in positions of power and authority.
When a woman is seen in such a position (Which again, should be the norm in Kaldorei society as a whole), They are villains, or they are incompetent in some way. I don’t think it is coincidence that Tyrande was the pick for “A Little Patience” when it could have just as easily been Felstad or even Varian’s own son. Or even just a role reversal, Varian with a history as a gladiator rather than a tactician, and who has a history of rash, emotion-lead actions, it is odd that he would be lecturing anyone on the virtue of patience.
And when you look at how Richard Knaack writes his novels… There is an understanding on his part that Kaldorei are matriarchal. There is even a scene in Stormrage where Tyrande essentially threatens Broll Bearmantle with a “command”. Essentially flexing that she was in charge, and druid or not, he had to answer to the authority of the Sisterhood.
Yet, throughout all his novels, Tyrande is written in a way that this quote appears relevant.
This is the same character who, in WC3, attacked humans and orcs without warning because they dared enter her forest. The same character who called the Horde Mongrels in the first meeting. Same character who said “Only the Goddess may forbid me anything” and killed a whole prison full of Wardens because they stood in her way. It is defiantly NOT true to the character to write her as this kind and gentle matron, ever loyal and submissive to her beloved Malfurion.
If anything, Night Warrior Tyrande was a return to her original character.
And MORE to this effect, is Blizzard’s weird tendency to write female victims as villains, as if to imply that a reclamation of power and the pursuit of justice is a bad thing when it comes to scorned women. We don’t just see that with Tyrande’s Night Warrior, but with Maiev and Jaina as well. There are more examples but I am blanking atm.
So there is a pattern, one that is indicative of a toxic corporate culture. That is sort of what I am educated in, I know what that looks like so I was able to call it out years before anyone knew these problems existed. And unfortunately, we know that was indeed a problem.
The Sisterhood has absolute authority. Malfurion’s co-ruler title is honorary at best, he still lets Tyrande make all the big decisions. Hell, he doesn’t even fight for her when the Horde Raids Darnassus. And we know the Kaldorei druids of the Cenarian circle answers to the Sisterhood, as I mentioned above, Tyrande threatened to evoke her authority with Broll Bearmantle.
Beyond all that, we have the devs tell us explicitly that it is a Matriarchal society and culture.
I don’t think Sylvanas was too bad before BFA. There was a sudden heel of her character after WotLK that is a bit jarring, but I think if Blizz just put a little bit more work into walking us through that change, it could have worked. I do think any attempt to make her an SA Allegory is pretty gross imo.
I mean… Illidan is 100x worse. He is a a creepy incel and War Criminal, who tortured Maiev and mutilated her face during her captivity in Outland. Yet people act like she deserved it. People still call him an “Antihero” when Maiev really was the hero of that story.
Because she is a willful, powerful and determined woman who is slightly unhinged (Putting aside Wolfheart because Blizz outright pretends it never happened, and that is for the best imo).
It -is- because she is a woman. If she was a man, she would be far more beloved, and that is just the truth of the matter. That is the general Illidan fanbase. A character who appeals to incels, resentful of women because they wont sleep with them.
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Illidan’s obsession with Tyrande looks pretty bad after the lawsuit. I wonder if a dev modeled Illidan after his own life now.
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I’ll be honest, I liked hating Jaina and Tyrande; really feels like a team sport to be able to throw shade at opposing ‘star players’. Genn fits the same mold.
Nothing particular against their stories and traumas, I’m just more interested in the conflict being akin to a football match then an actual deep narrative.
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While I agree with a lot of what you said, I don’t agree that Maleiev would be far more loved than she is as a woman. Maiev’s whole thing is chasing down Illidan to return to his prison. Prosecuting the incel for his crimes. If she were a male character, she’d just be forgotten by those who hate her now, but none of them would become fans. Maleiev would instead be the crock-blocker with traces of homophobia for his obsession with Illidan, the incel stand-in.
I think your assessment is fair except this.
I just find the Maiev x Illidan ship to be really, REALLY gross. And it’s annoying how people just latch onto two characters in proximity of each other and turn it sexual.
I am not against shipping, but it does get to the point of being weird. And the popularity of the Maiev x Illidan ship just really upsets me and makes me fear for humanity.
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Naw, it’s not about inverting the (fully agreed, gross) Maiev x Illidan ship. It’s about the mindset people have that creates those ships; a woman actively pursuing a man, for any reasons, must be in love with him. Therefore a man pursuing another man obsessively, for any reasons, will be viewed by those same people as homosexual in nature.
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Hate-shipping is something amazingly common amongst fandoms.
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“Harry Potter fanfic writers have entered the chat”
I mean, I understand the appeal. I am a sucker for romance, and sometimes there is chemistry between adversaries. It is also an easy thing to fall into.
Like, it is kind of a meme, but when Tyrande was choking out Sylvanas. The thought certainly popped into my mind. We stan for strong ice queens.
But then you remember that Sylvanas murdered thousands of people in a horribly painful way, ruined the future of the Kaldorei and also tried to murder Tyrande’s husband, and then you realize “Okay, that’s not so good.”
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Dude… that post was up a whole 2 seconds before you deleted it.
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It was impulsive and not really relevant to the thread.
Honestly, it’s just smut fantasy. I don’t think anyone is making any serious or deep points.
Its just the monkey brain going “Wouldn’t it be hot if X and Y were totally with each other?”
its in every fandom and its harmless.
Anyone remember the women in their 30s losing their mind over a young Justin Bieber or men counting down the days Olsen twins would finally be of age? That was more messed up than anything a nerd typed on their Word 2000 and posted it on a blog on AOL.
Edit: Damn you deleted the post… well whatever. I am keeping this.
My next OC, thanks for this.
hahaha damn.
My post wasn’t about that.