Sylvanas Violated Forsaken Free Will

What if the people she resurrects don’t see her as their savior but is forced to do as she pleases anyway?

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Right. No, Baine cared about it happening to an Alliance nobody and turned traitor, that’s why he’s hamburger meat.

And, if you didn’t notice, it takes quite a time - and a great deal of torture and brainwashing - to take away a Forsaken’s free will.

Sylvanas certainly doesn’t have the time/resources to be kidnapping every single Forsaken and brainwashing away their free will.

Derek proves that the Forsaken do, in fact, have free will.

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That’s funny… you clearly haven’t interacted with many of the Blood Elf and Forsaken posters on this forum :slight_smile:

And despite being undead, Derek Proudmoore is not one of the Forsaken.

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Interesting thought, but there are many Undead that aren’t part of the forsaken.

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This isn’t the “Hello! New Forsaken PC!” scenario. This is a singular event.

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The free will of the Undead was a thing, blizzard these days doesn’t bring it up much. But when a dead is ressed to become an undead, they get the choice to be part of the Forsaken or not.

There are bunch of undead who aren’t forsaken, and that’s okay with Sylvanas.

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UNDER NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES

Derek Proudmoore’s circumstances are far from normal.

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Derek Proudmoore was brought back up as a weapon, not to make just another Undead. so yeah… was different. :3

I should probably clarify, that I meant it should raise eyebrows in a story sense.

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Absolutely, but not because of some “universal rule about Forsaken”, but beause a brother is/was/is? being used to take out their own beloved sister.

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Did they retcon the Forsaken starting zone, where you appear moreso asked if you want to remain undead after your body and spirit are reconnected with their dark magic?

No.

People just casually ignore every lore point that does not fit what they are trying to argue, this happens way too often with the “forsaken free-will” plot.

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Wrong. Baine is the one who raises the issue of Forsaken Free-Will. Lilian Voss also comments on the issue. Blizzard would not have these characters explicitly say these things if they did not intend for them to be contemplated about. You can say “baine is wrong” but you can’t say “forsaken free will is not intended to have anything to do with it” when Blizzard explicitly raises the issue by writing it in there. If it was not an issue, and the only thing which we are suppose to view as being wrong is the use of someones family member, then they would not have written Baine or Lilian to say what they say. Get over it.

Now get out of here Lilian Voss voice “NECROMANCER!!!”

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Blizzard writes simple dialogue for a simple audience… like Trekkies. It’s not writing Tolstoy … or even G.R.R. Martin. Just some cinematics to serve as an introduction to the next series of quests or big time raid.

The dialogue reflects these inherent goals. Simplistic, without much nuance in how it explores the evolution of a situation.

It’s not meant to have you examine or weight it on past material written years earlier.

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I never said it was.

Yep. Which increasingly proves my point, not yours. The Dialogue is simple and to the point. Baines says she violated Forsaken Free-Will, Baine is obviously the designated Good Guy, Ergo you, the audience, are meant to understand that Sylvanas indeed violated a “core tenet” of the Forsaken… this combined with Lilian Voss commenting that Sylvanas “no longer respects what separates Forsaken from the Scourge”. If they didn’t want any of that that to have anything to do with it, they wouldn’t have written it, since, as you said, their dialogue is meant to be very simple for a simple audience. :slightly_smiling_face:

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Derek Proudmoore was not rasied to be Forsaken he was brought back for one reason and one reason alone to be use on his family and kill them. His body was not even a goal it was found by the Horde Hero by chance. So you can say that Sylvanas broke Forsaken law but i doubt any Forsaken would care she rasie an Alliance price to kill his own family and was making him a tool to do so.

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THIS ONE GETS IT!

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Alright, but as we accept that this is simple writing for a simple audience, who need things spoon-fed to us, why is this not what is written explicitly by characters in the game to counter Baine? Why does it take you Story Forum goes to go out of your way to make a contrived point as to why Baine is wrong?

So, yeah, no. Baine says it. Lilian basically says it. Blizzards writing and messaging is simple and to the point. Ergo Sylvanas violated the “core tenet” of what separates Forsaken from the Scourge. Good day sirs.

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There are some problems, at least for me, with this in that:
-I don’t really care what Baine says… does he even know what he is talking about?
-Lillian doesn’t really seem to know what is going on either, maybe only that she was conscripted, and that Derek Proudmoore is being manipulated in some way.
-As long as Lillian primarily resides in a realm that is protected by the Horde, her conscription isn’t a big deal to me.

  • I’m not sure that the ritual even violates Derek’s free will. He just seemed to be experiencing past events.
    -During the ritual, Baine visits derek, who asks not to be left alone. Immediately, Baine LEAVES. I’m not sure Baine even cares about Derek.