What? Why. The burning of Teldrassil makes perfect narrative sense. This blows my mind about the whole conversation.
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Blizzard won’t fix anything.
I think the biggest issue with the burning, wasn’t the actual burning. But how the aftermath was handled…which is to say it was handled really poor.
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Of course they won’t. In order for them to fix something, they’d have to admit they made a mistake, and knowing how arrogant the whole team is, they would never admit such a thing
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I can only speak for myself, but the Burning was a big issue to me. Seeing my favorite race, along with their homeland, literally go up in flames was not fun. It didn’t invigorate me or excite me. I hated playing through that questline and I felt awful when it was over.
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Which is understandable. The biggest issue is how mishandled it was. Can’t just put something like in game, label it a genocide and than write two short stories that massively contradict the in game event, only to ignore said event later on.
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Not every feminist considers Sylvanas a feminist icon. Sylvanas is an undead former slave who turned into someone much like her enslaver when she broke free; classic “he who fights monsters” (for all that Nietzsche got wrong, even a broken clock is right twice a day).
You slipped back into dishonest personal attacks with disappointing quickness (calling a religious person you disagree with “nuts”; 
never seen or heard that one before 
). Why answer your questions when you’re going to assume the worst and call us whatever snarl word is popular with the current zeitgeist/insult your ideology has for those who don’t fit it?
Seriously… you call us radicalized because we think a selfish, mentally unstable war criminal makes for a bad feminist icon? 
I can see you admiring Sylvanas’ determination and inventiveness, that’s fair. That doesn’t extend to making her actions or goals admirable (especially with the writers playing fast and loose with morality). There have been plenty of feminist icons in fiction long before Sylvanas. To name a few;
- Jane Eyre
- Josephine March (from Little Women)
- Diana Prince/Wonder Woman
- She-Ra (one that you’ve said you admire)
- She-Hulk
- Leia Organa
- Lara Croft (there was a time when a character could be both a sex symbol and a feminist icon)
I suggest you look to them.
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While I don’t doubt that Afrasiabi had a part to play, I think it’s really just way too simple to make him the scapegoat here. I don’t like him. He’s just not really a likable person at all, listen to him at any of the Q&As at Blizzcon. But people need to really chill on pretending Teldrassil was a complete break in character for Sylvanas. It’s really just an extension of the bad stuff she was already doing, it’s just a huge escalation. It seems like Afrasiabi wanted to pull a red wedding in WoW without having any of the creative chops to pull that sort of thing off.
I think a lot of people didn’t seem to play the Worgen starter zone at all. A shocking amount of people think Genn is mad for no reason. Like people seem to forget that the Worgen were there in Teldrassil because of what Sylvanas did to them and their home. Like the same kinda posters who will talk about how awful it was the Alliance attacked a slave ship full of Goblins and then use that as a justification on why all Goblins everywhere should want to nuke Stormwind and then pretend Genn doesn’t have any legitimate gripe about what Sylvanas did in Gilneas.
Like, I’m sure Afrasiabi had a hand in that too. He probably just kinda resented that people like Sylvanas when he tried to make her as unlikable as possible.
I agree that Teldrassil and its consequences have been disastrous for this game’s lore. But it wasn’t out of character for Sylvanas to do. Sylvanas stans will seethe that Lordaeron stans were right all along, but that’s just the way she’s been written since 2006 because of Afrasiabi.
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Yeah, but Afrasabi didn’t do all of her writing, it seems like there was a creative difference of opinion between Afrasabi’s Sylvanas and Kosak’s Sylvanas. The Sylvanas people liked, was the anti-hero that Kosak wrote her to be not the villian Afrasabi was trying to make her into. I’ve seen a lot more people recently try to claim that Kosak’s anti-hero Sylvanas never existed at all and that’s just not accurate.
When Sylvanas fans talk about her as a sort of hero, we are refering to Kosak’s vision, the one where he was setting Sylvanas to some avatar of Azeroth and the protector/hero of her people. I don’t actually see many Sylvanas fans opposed to Afrasabi’s version of Sylvanas, but this dichotomy of her character between both versions left us all confused about her future.
Danuser’s team had the impossible task of trying to find some common ground between these two versions of Sylvanas and although the split soul thing is not particularly brilliant, it’s the best they could have done in a small amount of time, so it all makes sense now. I consider Shadowlands a character reset, it seems like they are doing away with Afrasabi’s villain arc and pivoting now back to Kosak’s anti-hero and that’s okay with me, who liked Kosak’s vision.
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See, those are good points and I think that’s the root of my current dissapointment because I personally was rooting for Kosak’s vision of Sylvanas, and through his context she could have made the deal with Helya knowing the Jailer would attack Azeroth, and she knew the Forsaken were the best defense against Death. It’s like the Forsaken’s whole purpose.
Enslaving Eyir could have been seen as a necessary evil in the war against the Jailer, especially knowing that Odyn had made deals with Mueh’zala. They could have vilified Odyn and not Sylvanas. Sylvanas could have easily swapped roles with Darion.
I think I will always think this was a missed opportunity, I would have loved to see what this franchise and Sylvanas could have been if it was Kosak at the helm and not Afrasabi.
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You assume that saying someone like Sylvanas doesn’t make for a good feminist icon makes one a misogynist?
You assume suggesting alternatives makes one a misogynist?
SMH
Stop trying to mislabel people who disagree with you. Stop trying to simultaneously play the victim and claim you’re fighting for freedom.
Sylvanas was doing nasty stuff even before Afrasiabi took charge of the story. One of the many problems with Afrasiabi is he took the fire and poured napalm on it. And Kosak wasn’t much better than Afrasiabi.
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And yet it was my comments here about Sylvanas and feminist icons that “provoked” the latest accusation of misogyny, regardless of the strawmen you’ve made of my stances on the issues you cited. I don’t know whether it’s funny or sad that you actually believe those false claims you make about me.
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Exactly, that is why she is a horribly sexist character.
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Another think that it doesn’t add up is that the burning triggered Saurfangs arc. Like it or not it was the story they trow the most resources. Sacrifice Sylvanas to spin Saurfangs arc? Maybe. Sabotage is rather strong characterization.
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I find it more believable that Saurfang is the character that’s been sabotaged. World Of Warcraft’s Chuck Norris got turned into a sadboi then executed. That’s pathetic. In another universe, his trinket is on par with Martin Thunder. Can’t have that now because instead of curing cancer with tears he made tears because of cancerous developers.
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I would like to know why they made Saurfang a hypocrite than a martyr.
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Blaming the forsaken for the entirety of what happened in Gilneas happens way to often. It conveniently brushes over the fact that Gen, the leader of Gilneas, introduced a werewolf apocalypse into his country which destroyed it.
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Nah, they were sacrificing the Night Elves arc for Saurfang; Saurfang is presented as heroic throughout the expansion, but doesn’t answer for his crimes going back to the original Horde, and still hogs the spotlight from the Night Elves - the actual victims of one of the attempted genocides he was partly responsible for. All in all, despite Saurfang being portrayed as an honorable hero, it’s pretty hard to sympathize with his plight when he’s knowingly made the world a much worse place.
You actually have a point.
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I have probably unpopular opinions when it comes to the Forasken/Gilnean war. It’s based in lore.
Archmage Arugual summoned the Worgen from the Emerald Dream to fight the Scourge with Genn’s knowing consent. They did this knowing the Worgen’s were uncontrolable, it eas a risk that ultimately backfired on them and turned them all into worgen. That’s why the worgen were locked away in the Emerald Dream by Malfurian in the first place. The Worgen who attacked the Gilneans and gave them the worgen curse were these feral worgen.
Up until Garrosh pushed to claim Gilneas for the Horde, Sylvanas had no quarrel with Gilneas, aside from them releasing the feral worgen, because they could not distinguish Scourge from Forsaken. It was within the Forsaken right to seek to destroy Ivar Bloodfang and his feral pack of Worgen invading their lands. She even sought the Scythe of Elune to try and control them rather than outright kill them because she saw the feral Worgen as a potential gain for herself and the Horde.
Garrosh was responsible for the Battle of Gilneas, Sylvanas is only guilty of being too effective and winning that battle. Sylvanas used the blight yeah, but Gilneans also released the feral worgens onto Azeroth and they were a threat to everyone. I am glad though that the Alliance were able to “tame” the worgen and we have another cool monster race. But the Gilneans should be seen as victims of fhier own failure and lack of foresight the feral worgen would turn on them, and not as victims of Sylvanas.
Pretending the WoW lore isn’t a two-sided story is detrimental to any honest lore discussions.
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She lost at Gilneas….pretty badly mind you. It’s why she had to resort to kidnapping Darius daughter to force a stalemate with Ivars group.
That whole battle generally was just a meat grinder for the forsaken and Garrosh knew that the forsaken could never actually take Gilneas without being decimated in the process
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