It was tough to distinguish between the ironic voices and the serious ones.
But for years Horde players have been calling for Alliance blood like Jaina and Tyrande… so I guess Blizzard gave the vocal minority what they wanted.
Everyone who did the war of thorns and wanted to cling to victimhood identity. Christie Golden. Any writer who doesn’t feel comfortable writing any characters but reactionary victims.
But specifically, I meant not the burning of Teldrassil, but the obvious gear shifts, away from story directions that were so obvious that the playerbase threatened to quit if/when they came to pass. People didn’t want Kerrigan, or Illidan, so what they promised us we weren’t getting (Garrosh) was essentially all they had left. We didnt want any more faction war, so they cancelled warfronts and island expeditions. They make interesting stories, and game modes, and we ignore them, then say they suck… then when they cancel further explorations of those modes, we complain that we have been shorted.
We keep requesting an end to the faction conflict, which is the number one MMORPGs solution to almost half a century of virtual world problems. They FIXED the age old “clubs” dilemma with the 2 faction system, and we beg them to remove it. We are collectively idiots and any time they listen to us, we screw them. They should just cancel open betas. They should have closed beta testers sign NDAs and stop trying to use content creators as free advertising during the testing process.
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Before I respond point by point, I’ll start by saying that it is in 100% in character for Sylvanas to take advantage of a circumstance like the wall of Gilneas going down in the earthquake. She’d be fairly stupid not to do so, especially since it could have led to a lot of trouble for her forces in Silverpine.
But the game never showed her having any plans to proactively invade. As long as the Gilneans were stuck behind their wall and not bothering her, they were not really on her radar. Vanilla-WotLK Sylvanas was not primarily focused on expanding Forsaken numbers, so she had no reason to think about it. The retcon of Chronicles was to suggest that even in the Vanilla-WotLK era, she was plotting invasions, which simply doesn’t match up with how she was presented during Vanilla-WotLK.
First off, that plan entered the game at the same time as the worgen did. She barely had time to think about it before the war was breaking out again.
You’d think Pyrewood would be a clue that it was at least a possibility. The Forsaken had been dealing with the wolf curse in Silverpine for a long time.
What do you mean by “came into this”? Because in the game, she “came into” an invasion already in progress.
It’s been a long time since I’ve played this zone, so I may have forgotten something. Can you point me to a time in the game when Sylvanas demonstrated plans for invading Gilneas before it actually happened? (Also, I’m trying to remember where she came from when she walked in on the invasion—was she just returning from Icecrown at the time? “Edge of Night” kind of suggests it, but I don’t remember whether the game specifies.)
Garrosh was the one who actually put the plan in motion, which is my definition of “instigator.”
Strawman. No one, no one single person, has been arguing that she was was too good and sweet for that.
Pretty sure that didn’t start until Cataclysm, which was the same time the worgen entered the game, because it wasn’t even possible without the val’kyr.
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A part of that is how unlike-able blizzard has tried to make female characters. The actual female villains are more interesting than the female faction leaders. Thalyssra is a hypocrite, Jaina is bipolar and decides what she wants to do on the fly, and tyrande is just an A-hole seriously that’s like tyrande’s only quality being stupid and mean.
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Honestly I don’t understand why Tyrande gets so much hate for. The poor woman doesn’t do anything bad… People like Nathanos because he doesn’t worship the ground you walk on. Tyrande is pretty much the same except she is more civil about it.
As for Jaina… yeah but the bipolar thing is just so she starts liking Horde again. But honestly I doubt this is why they were calling for her head for years.
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You’re not wrong, Rawrlol.
While it’s true that he doesn’t do a lot of speculation and headcanon, I can’t stomach Nobbel’s pro-Alliance filter.
This thread is accusing them of excusing Danuser a lot more than the actual videos did. The T&E and Bellular videos were focused pretty narrowly on just the decision to make Sylvanas burn Teldrassil.
Not every Horde player is like Erevien.
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Never said every player.
You don’t need to be an Erevien to hold those views.
Much of the mocking Erevien gets from the Horde players here were not the Alliance list of names he wants to kill but the Horde ones.
I meant without changing the presentation of the burning as it was already in the game, cinematics, and novellas. Renautus was talking about hoping to get validation for choosing the loyalist path, waaay at the end of the expansion, when (IMO) the beginning of the expansion should have been a clear signal that there was no way they could ever make siding with Sylvanas into the right thing to do.
Yeah, they even threatened to make Thunder Bluff the next target!
Hey, maybe that’s it—T for Target! 
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Pretty sure those were canceled mostly because people didn’t like the gameplay, not because we said we didn’t want faction war.
I honestly haven’t seen a lot of evidence that the story team listens to what the players want from the story at all.
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She returned from Icecrown to an invasion already underway, according to EoN. It was the invasion foretold to her by the Valkyr. She took control of it to ensure that Garrosh would not foolishly waste forsaken lives in his expansionist invasion. The motive is a bit split-personality in that she both acts as though they are her resource to use for her purposes and in a sort of Shakesperian methinks-the-lady-doth-protest-too-much she heavily implies that she cares for her people.
Now, there is a sort of confusion between the transnarrative and the events in game. It seems in game that the invasion is opportunistic in that it doesnt take place until the sundering, but it is still consistent in that Garrosh is the one that wants Gilneas for the horde, and is using the Forsaken to accomplish it.
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What players? Who?
Where are they?
Like lmao
This is more “you think you do but you don’t” @ the devs
War of Thorns is the start of the problem, this is incoherent logic.
Nobody asked for War of Thorns
You mean the writers were okay with villain batting and demonizing the Horde, this time forcing the player to commit war crimes personally in a universal unavoidable capacity, thus breaking the magic circle for both Horde and Alliance.
What the hell are you talking about
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Wait.
Are you saying the problem with World of Warcraft and its narrative and gameplay issues, of which there are many, isn’t actual;ly a problem with the narrative and gameplay, but actually the players’ fault?
Ion, is that you?
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Well, yeah, most WoW players should not be listened to, but I’m smarter than most of them.
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Sort of… but WoT wasn’t bad. It was recieved about as well as the Pandaren race was. And instead of ignoring complaints from a vocal cadre of the playerbase and content creators, the devs seem to have massaged the narrative a bit to appease the “Im quitting if x happens” crowd.
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Disagree. I came very close to quitting the game over the WoT. And the Pandaren race didn’t have players yelling and screaming at each other for months on end.
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… You’re joking, right?
Honestly, years, at this point.
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Oh yeah, we’ve all talked about Danuser and Afrasiabi, but nobody mentioned Ion.
Absent the burning of Teldrassil, the main problem with the WOT is that it included the usual goading of players with different stories for the two factions. In the Alliance, the Horde massacres civilians in Astranaar while in the Horde story Saurfang goes out of his way to protect civilians.
A good war gives sympathetic view of the Horde. It maybe that the main body of writers were writing a “morally grey” (or at least “more grey”) story with Afrasiabi putting in “evil villain” give events for Sylvanas.
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