Done in the right way, I’m not convinced its loss would have even required a victory in compensation. And it was done in the right way, more or less. The Forsaken lost their beloved capital on their own terms, still control most of the lands it’s nestled within, and their main - their only - story hook right now is what they’ll do about it.
The devs clearly find this “night elf apology arc” grating and tedious, so maybe they shouldn’t have necessitated it with a gross genocide in the first place.
The issue with the War of Thorns, as a story beat, wasn’t that it was out of character for Sylvanas. Frankly, Sylvanas has been committing war crimes since TFT.
The issue with War of Thorns is, firstly, how cheap it is. The idea that the Horde could blitz their way through thousands of miles of the most dense forest in the world in a matter of a week? Two weeks? And then burn down a giant tree (living wood does not burn very easily) with catapults launching burning ammunition several tens of miles away… Despite the Alliance still having naval superiority in the channel between Teldrassil and Darkshore…
… It is incredibly stupid.
Not to mention the lead up to it. The excuse for the Horde to go to war in the first place. Azeroth just defeated their oldest enemy. Literally the force that is responsible for the conflict between the factions, those factions had just defeated. The factions probably have never been that unified ever. So the idea of “Go to war now to avoid a war in the future” just didn’t track.
And of course just how stupid the idea was in its entirety. It is hard to look at BFA and not just assume the average IQ of the Horde is somewhere around 70.
But as far as Sylvanas is concerned… She has always been the sort of person to burn children alive. She was torturing and enslaving people back in Vanilla. Stealing Sin’dorei corpses in TBC. Politically strong-armed Silvermoon to go to war in Northrend during Wrath.
She has always been a bully and a horrible person.
Afrasiabi it seems did see himself as Garrosh as he was attempting to redeem him only for Kosak’s depiction of him to take precedence.
Kosak’s own preference for sensitive men being triumphant won out leaving Afrasiabi with only freedom to decide what Female Villain he was going to have for men to triumph over.
He also wanted the Female Villain to be the Ultimate Villain judging from his statement of how just having Sylvanas die as a Raid Boss would be unworthy of her!
That said Afrasiabi still had Saurfang pull off one form of victory against the Female Villain even if it wasn’t the Victory of Strength!
Most of the devs were around that era. Metzen was probably the sole big name Alliance fan per that WoW AMA (that I can’t find any more) by a Vanilla dev.
Even non Sylvanas fans had been saying that. Just look at the first lot of responses to the Sylvanas Negativity thread… but we both know you would just claim they are lying to themselves like you did in that thread anyway.
This does track somewhat, not just with Sylvanas. As Metzen’s influence waned in terms of the story in WoW, we started to see more odd characterization for female characters. Cata was also when Metzen was starting to step back due to (admitted) family troubles and health issues.
Bringing on Golden didn’t help as much because she has specific favourites she focused on, and her writing style is very… 90s fantasy, which isn’t exactly stellar when it comes to female characters anyway.
What redemption? As of now she’s been removed from the story that was shoved onto her and she’s being shelved for the time being. Her going into the Maw to hunt down Nathanos or save souls or whatever she ends up doing is a good way for the devs to get her completely out of the story while they try to figure out what to do with her.
Not being killed isn’t a redemption and almost every single character is making it very obvious they don’t trust or even want to tolerate her. Jaina, Thrall, and Baine are willing to let Anduin remain a pawn of the Jailer because they don’t want to help her and Bolvar makes it clear he only wants the information she has.
She submits to Tyrande’s judgement apparently and surprise surprise a few minutes later Sylvanas gets to walk away.
Even if Tyrande shakes her fits and stomps her feet saying she will never forgive Sylvanas or all the things we want to hear but functionally doesn’t do anything about it is still the same thing as a redemption.
Because the outcome is the same.
No more pretty words or promises. Actually effing do it Tyrande/Blizzard.
Start from the beginning. I always found that helped me… maybe you will understand what I am talking about and in the same process I will understand your points.
Think of it this way… is the label of “Redeemed” important if the outcome is the same?
For me its always has been that Sylvanas is let free to roam in peace. We can package it a hundred ways but that is the end result. Maybe rides off to the sunset or rejoins the Horde… most probably her own choice on what to do and the credits roll.
Azshara is still Night Elf land. Tyrande only let the Goblins make use of its lumber after the Siege of Orgrimmar for in turn staying out of Ashenvale. The Night Elves never left Azshara. Those same Night Elves attacking the Horde now had been there and helping defend the Horde’s gate from the demons in the Legion pre-patch events.
And yet while A Good War confirmed that the Horde had left Ashenvale after Mists of Pandaria, that same War of the Thorns had the Goblins break the very agreement they had made. So even in attacking the Horde in Azshara the Night Elves are not the instigators.
This one?
Chris Metzen: Malfurion’s always been, personally, my favorite Warcraft hero. He’s my favorite to write, so I’ve waited a long time to get this guy back into the mix, and have him play a significant role in the shaping of Azeroth.
On the topic of the thread: This is even more maddening, considering the years and years that Sylvanas fans touted Afrasiabi as saying Sylvanas was a beloved character.
I wrote this this morning before this came out, and I can’t believe I was able to articulate how I felt about this story since BfA, and have it completely verified hours later by reputable sources.