seems like a oversight. it would need a specific talent to make that possible due to the loss of dam by not having a two hander. it owuld be a nice flavor talent like smf and strength of the frozen north
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Stop trying to make sword and board ret happen, it’s not gonna happen.
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Ummm… Not really, the extra stats you get from the sheild, and what ever ability they attach to the “new” sheild and 2-hand talent would insure it does not. In addition, the fact your still using a 2-hander means you don’t lose dps really for picking the talent.
Choosing to use a 1-hander in a spec that is meant to use a 2-hander however IS A DPS LOSS.
Why do you keep repeating what everyone has already told you / is in agreement on?
Literally no one is arguing that it isn’t a DPS loss, only that…
- Sword and Board should be a niche alt-build at most, not something that attempts to compete with 2Handers for overall damage, especially ST damage (as you’d then just have a reskin that costs twice the initial drops, or worse, requires gearing an extra two slots for fight-specific BiS), and
- there’s no point in locking that playstyle, which would only ever be niche anyhow, behind a talent (simply let it be baseline as a situational and compromising means of anti-melee thick-Ret or the like).
Cough
They will get toned like the rest. Most likely by making all ret skills require a 2-hander.
Sword-and-Board-ing can’t simultaneously be so strong as to force Ret into playing it (despite its obviously dealing less damage, as it falls far behind in Weapon-DPS contribution) and not be viable.
I don’t know what you’re on about, man.
Must be hard
You. Do. Not. Need. A. Talent. To have a choice. Between S&B vs. 2H builds.
The build literally cannot be overpowered if you do not have a talent, as its weakness is inherent: poor WDPS contribution. With a talent, it can be made to be overpowered, as you can now more than make up for that deficit.
For the talent to ever even be taken, in fact, sword and board would need to perform better than two-hander, by the very fact that it costs a talent.
But neither does that necessitate S&B being “forced” on anyone; it literally comes down to the tuning. Without a talent, that tuning is inherently a non-issue. With it, you’ve now made it a potential problem.
All you’re done here is complicating a non-issue and restricting a would-be build choice behind specific parent nodes. There’s zero benefit to that. It doesn’t help you avoid S&B. It just wastes a talent and adds undo constraints.
I don’t get what’s so difficult about this for you.
Leave it niche. Let it lie.
Don’t purposely get in the build’s way such as by arbitrarily requiring a 2-hander for skills; just leave the obvious damage disadvantage as is and let those who for whatever reason want to leverage the extra Armor from SotR and/or the block chance from using a shield do so if they like. It’s as simple as that.
The talent doesn’t remove the 2-hander.
Thus making it able to compete with the non-sheild builds.
What you want is for a 1-hander build to compete against the current ret builds, when the spec will not be designed for 1-handers.
Unintentional 1-hander builds will be squished out of existence by blizz toning phases.
How much layman do you need?
They won’t let it lie, specilally since it’s on the forums now lmfao.
Sure it won’t, I mean the idea is to give ret’s a unique look, give a titan grip-esque option if they choose it, allow ret’s use of it’s full tool-kit including using all 2-hand skills and the class spells requiring shields. Such a horrible idea I made, it is as if I don’t want the class the ability to use it’s designed whole tool-kit. Must be horrible. (sarcasm.)
I won’t have to. Blizzards history had proved they kill off unintentional builds before they go too far. Look up shockadins.
No. I literally just told you I do not want it to compete for damage; I want it to be situational. Niche.
How many more times do you need this explained?
Perhaps if they could actually compete for damage. They can’t. Nor does anyone but perhaps you want them to. Their advantage is purely defensive and anti-melee.
I don’t have to; I played them.
And the core to old Shockadins had to do with stacking Intellect even on a spec not typically Int-high and using a hybrid build — both of which have long since become impossible, while the Legion variant was simply due to Holy’s Sanctified Wrath being ridiculously overtuned so it could out-burst several DPS. It had nothing to do with a mere alternative weapon choice.
You don’t need a talent to do that. Ffs, Titan’s Grip isn’t even a talent and previously, SMF wasn’t either.
All. It. Requires. Is. To. NOT. Pointlessly. Stick. “Requires a Two-Handed Weapon.” On. Ret’s. Skills.
That’s it. It’s that simple. Please stop.
And the niche will be killed by blizz. How hard is that to comprehend?
Want to be anti melee as a paladin? roll prot.
It was a build meant to make paladins ranged dps. It’s a different style of play much like a 1-hand/sheild. It’s essentially on topic.
Yes it does.
It was until legion.
It was twice in order to compete with titan’s grip, due to dual weilding 2-hands was just too good.
It does in order to not force all ret’s into using sheilds. Not all ret’s would like that image. Some would prefer the classic look.
Did you not read any of the times I told you the talent idea is to have you WEILD A 2-HANDER WITH A SHEILD part of the talent suggested? Like at all?
Nah, you stop.
It’s not difficult to comprehend; you’re simply talking out your rear. Shockadin wasn’t removed for being niche or unintended. It was removed for its overall potency.
Or, I could have, y’know, the same build freedom as Arms had in Shadowlands. Or, y’know, gradations and situational options, where they’d otherwise be perfectly well possible if one simply didn’t go out of their way to prevent them.
No, it wasn’t. It’s been baselined since MoP.
Again. Not a talent except in a single expansion, Cataclysm. It was thereafter a baseline passive until Dragonflight.
You could in fact —get this— choose whether to use 2-handers or 1-handers… by using either 2-handers… or 1-handers. Shocking.
Mate, that’s like saying RSV plays like MSV so long as they both used a crossbow instead of a gun, or that Sub is Assassination so long as they use daggers in both hands. Shield usage is not relevant to what the spec did. And it wasn’t even any and all shields; it was specifically intellect shields.
Even without the weapon restrictions, it’d inferior in almost way that matters — situational and niche at best. How tf is that going to “force” everyone play the inferior builld? Please. Make sense. Just… try. Okay? At least the once.
It was removed because it was unintended. Holy was intended to be a healing spec only.
Go play arms then? Paladins isn’t the weapon swapping class.
What ever you think cheif.
Single minded fury was introduced in wrath. It was also in MoP i beleive, but other talents out performed it.
Fury warriors lost that option after single minded was removed. Unless they wanted to be obsolete, they needed to dw 2-handers. It was a major complaint for them for a long while.
Out of context to what was said. Good job.
Maybe you ought to read before you reply mate. But then again;
You left the realm of being appropiate awhile ago.
Just stop, take a breather and move on. Talent choices is called choices for a reason.
No one is asking for it to be a “weapon-swapping class”. You literally can’t swap in M+ anyways, and you’re not about to give up the GCDs to swap back and forth anyways.
But BoJ, for instance, has nothing to do with the weapon in your hand any more than Judgment or Exorcism do. It has no reason to require a two-hander.
Mate, it’s not arguable. It literally stopped being a talent and became baselined. Titan’s Grip is not a talent and hasn’t been one for 6 expansions now. It does not give precedent to the idea that build-choices or weapon adjustments possible must be supported by talents. It shows the opposite.
You keep pulling out misinformation and conflations as if they were reasonable warrants. They are not.
Check your damn facts. Or at least have actually played the things you’re arguing about.
and why shouldn’t it?
wotlk allows it
gladiator warrior allows it.
I’m all for the return of preg
Shouldn’t be what?
Greatbrae is the one arguing that it needs to be stuck behind a talent to even be a lackluster option. I’m asking that the 2h requirements be removed so that it can be one baseline, though distinct from a 2H playstyle by trading damage for durability.
Hot takes here people…
Sword n board ret does not exist…
Shockadin does not exist.
Stop trying to be unique and conform, lest you ruin others’ group content with your special snowflake uselessness.
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it did exist in wotlk
so it can
ok we should be able to spec into a viable form of we want
why shouldn’t 1h and shield be a viable option
I’m pro both specs
…I’m asking for them both to be viable, so long as the shield would actually see use.
Now, if you mean that in the sense of dealing exactly the same damage, no. Because then they wouldn’t both be viable, because the 1H build would do all the 2H build does, and more, leaving 2H dead.
Luckily, that can’t happen so long as you don’t lock any huge talents behind specifically requiring a 2H, just like 1H builds would be usable for PvP so long as you don’t randomly require skills to require a 2H.
In PvE, unless attempting some sort of high-key run where you need to split a Bolstered mob from the tank or deal with a face-wrecking add you don’t want to swap a DPS outright to a tank for (and therefore make do with taunt-rotations and on-demand mitigation), yeah, it’s not going to be typically useful, but that’s fine. Better that the shield is only useful when it has shield-based things to do than to push 2H out of PvP.