SV in Shadowlands

I could be wrong, but I don’t think hunters have had any melee attacks since the removal of the minimum range on ranged weapons. Outside of post-Legion SV of course.

That’s kinda the whole point. The minimum range was the reason why we had melee weapons in the first place. Once that was gone, we had no reason to carry them anymore.

Melee hunters don’t make sense because hunters have no reason to melee. If you don’t melee before level 10, why would you do it after?

The Archer playstyle is what the Hunter class is meant to capture. Any spec that doesn’t feel like an Archer, has strayed too far from the core of what this class is. Hitting level 10 shouldn’t make your character feel like you’re suddenly playing a different class. SV does. That is why it does not fit the class.

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Thats MM, not BM, not SV. A hunter is a hunter.

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So how would you describe the direct attacks of a BM Hunter? The attacks that come directly from the Hunter are delivered via? A ranged weapon!

Even tho BM heavily relies on the pet, it still captures the Archer playstyle. You’re still standing at range firing arrows.

Levels 1-9 are incredibly important. They form the introduction and foundation of the class. Both MM and BM build upon the Archer playstyle developed during the early leveling process. SV abandons it.

Not all hunters are represented within the Hunter Class. Rexxar may be a hunter, but his fighting style is not captured by SV.

The class was built around the ranged weapon and the Archer playstyle. Why do you think so many of our abilities end with the word shot??

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BM is simply supporting his beast, the pet does all the work. Beside having a ranged weapon doesn’t make you an archer.

Hunter is hunter, Archer is Archer. Do not confuse, they are not the same. Again, using a ranged weapon doesn’t make you an archer.

And if you want to go deeper, what if he used a Gun ? That’s not an archer’s weapon.

Sure, if you completely ignore all the shots coming from the hunter…

Explain the difference between them. How do the direct attacks from a Hunter differ from those of an Archer?

An Archer is just someone who specializes in combat with a bow. Anyone who fights primarily with a bow is literally an Archer.

The game doesn’t differentiate between ranged weapons. They’re all the same. The playstyle is the same no matter which ranged weapon you use.

Rifleman = Archer. Potato Tomato, my dude. The gameplay is the same.

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A hunter is someone that hunts, tracks a target to kill it / capture it (for sport, fun, or surviving ) It can use a bow, gun, crossbow, spears, or other close range weapons. Usually using one they are most used with or one where the enemy is more vulnerable to. While also using traps, lures , baits w/e

An archer, as you’ve said:

Hunters start the game with a ranged weapon. And since ranged weapon choice doesn’t affect playstyle. Yes, your hunter uses an Archer playstyle by default!

The combat style is exactly the same.

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DARN, Human warrior start with a sword… THEY ARE A SWORDMAN FIGHTER! but thats hacks! Horde gets some AXEMAN.

I would hope by now you get it…

archer noun

  1. a person who shoots with a bow and arrow; bowman.

hunter noun

  1. a person who hunts game or other wild animals for food or in sport.

An archer is someone who uses range weapons. While the other only requires them to be search for something, but does not explains what tools they may use.

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LoL this guy never gives up.

They need to just make a fourth spec. I don’t care if they are opposed to giving classes fourth specs. They are the one who messed up here when they deleted an entire spec. So they should fix it, even if they don’t like it. Bring back ranged SV as a fourth spec, and then they can make melee SV completely melee with zero ranged. They’d be free to disconnect melee SV from being the trap spec too. Since like what is the point of using traps as a melee spec?

Yes because historically, both in fiction and real life, a ‘hunter’ is somebody who runs up to their prey and stabs them with a polearm. No they aren’t. They shoot them.

Nor should he. Why should people just roll over when Blizzard prunes an entire spec from the game?

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It takes a special level of stupid to claim that throughout history people hunted more with bows than they did sharp implements…

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You aren’t wrong! But that isn’t quite the point I’m making.

Mechanically, true. Thematically, more a bit of logic forced on us by Blizzard (in the face of well-established hunter and ranger lore in and out of WoW).

I can think of any number of reasons you might want to, but I do still agree Hunter should have a melee option pre-level 10. It could be as simple as removing the ranged weapon requirement on Arcane and Steady Shot and giving lowbie hunters Raptor Strike. Though that may cause issues with animating Steady and Arcane. (can Blizzard set it so those move animate using a hand crossbow based on what weapon the hunter has equipped?)

Gotta disagree. For one, the class can also use guns and crossbows - very different in theme (if not execution) than bows. MM focuses on a “sniper” aspect, but otherwise Hunter in general is meant to capture a rugged tracker and ranger who uses an animal companion and a variety of tricks to track and take down their prey.

Lore in and out of WoW is full of examples of melee hunters and rangers. Everything from that dumb dark elf in the Forgotten Realms to Rexxar in WoW. To say melee hunters don’t fit the class’s theme is to disregard a sizable chunk of classic hunter/ranger examples.

Again, you’re retroactively applying logic based on new developments to an old argument. I’m not saying it’s wrong - it needs to be addressed. It’s just … a weird sort of hindsight bias.

If you want to add throwing spears as a new type of ranged weapon I am all for that. But it’s not like as soon as ranged weapons like bows were invented they were like “Nah it still better to run up and stab animal in da face”.

Heck, the WoW universe has guns. In what world would a hunter opt to stab their prey with a polearm at point blank range instead of shooting them from a distance? Especially when dealing with dangerous prey that could kill them if they got too close?

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People have brought up spears being used in real-life hunting quite a bit.

It’s my understanding that real-life hunters don’t run up to their prey and stab with the spear.

No, they wait until the prey charges them… and run directly into the spears. That’s what I’ve heard about how hunting works with spears.

Just wanted to toss this in.

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Sounds more like trapping than melee attacking to me.

Also, spears are generally useful when thrown. Swinging a spear around in melee with abilities like Carve/Butchery really never made much sense and were suspiciously fitting abilities for things like 2H Axes/Swords. It’s an example of how Blizzard is far less mindful of that “primitive Hunter with a spear” archetype people think they’re going for and their minds are more in the area of Arms/Fury warrior design when they’re thinking about Survival.

The primary issue when it comes to melee weapons in WoW is that they’re not just a part of the class or something pulled out of a “bag of tricks”. For Survival, melee weapons define what the spec can and can’t do. Once you spec Survival you can no longer effectively fight at ranged like the other Hunter specs. When you choose the spec that keeps being branded as the opportunist who lets no advantage slip the first and most prominent thing you do is abandon the single biggest advantage you have. This has never made sense yet Arkade is shilling for this idea in every single post like it somehow does if you take his specific perspective.

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Sure there are hunters who prefer melee combat in lore, but the Hunter Class has always been thematically focused on the use of the ranged weapon. It says just as much in the original game manual.

Raptor Strike still requires a 2h melee weapon. Pre-level 10 shouldn’t play like SV because 2/3 of the class is full-ranged and the vast majority of our abilities are shots.

Weapon choice and abilities should be aligned. If most of your abilities are shots, your primary weapon should be something capable of shooting. The Hand crossbow is a side-arm. And its not even a real equippable item!

Explain the playstyle difference between ranged weapons. That’s like saying a Warrior with a sword is different than a Warrior with an axe. There isn’t a significant difference.

By “variety of tricks” you mean shots.

The 1-9 hunter leveling experience hasn’t changed since what, Cata? Melee hunter is the new development. All this time, even in the current alpha. No melee abilities. That’s history not bias.

Speaking of bias. I think they have started to address the melee hunter problem. With all these new ranged abilities, SV is finally starting to feel like a real hunter spec again. Let’s hope they keep this trend going!

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Correction: there is Wing Clip at level 3 now for all specs. I’m not sure what this looks like or how they make it make sense.

Wing Clip is replaced by Concussive Shot for the ranged specs at level 13.

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Hmm. That IS odd. Getting Concussive Shot early taught new Hunters the basics of kiting.

Swapping that with Wing Clip? That doesn’t really teach much about kiting, more like of a “yikes! I gotta get out of here” thing.

IMO, of course.