Hmm no. They could instead give the option of talent point 1 being a choice node.
1/2: raptor strike/mongoose strike counter shot becomes muzzle, concussion shot becomes wing clip, e.t.c
3: cobra shot (or whatever they’d like to name it) and everything remains the same as mm and bm for hunter tree.
They could then work talents around adding more time onto dots, additional effects from traps, or whatever instead of almost a dozen boring 3 point nodes that only give a number increase on damage
Then any players who like ranged survival could finally get a current iteration of the spec and melee survival players wouldn’t get shafted by their in and out spec being removed
I mean that’s a nice dream, it could certainly work that way if the devs wanted it to. I think it’s pretty clear that the devs have no interest in doing that, at least not for DF. We’d already see choice nodes allowing for it and talents referring to Raptor Strike or Cobra Shot. Adding in RSV options now would be a massive amount of work just to make everything functional, nevermind the balancing required to make sure melee isn’t just objectively worse all the time.
I’d love to see it happen, but I think it’s better to focus feedback on things that are more likely to be considered.
Even considering the very rough and early state of the SV tree I still have to agree here. If you ask me the current tree is very far from what we might get at launch but sadly most of the core is probably the same as we’ll get.
It’s going to be a bomb spamming AoE build and a Mongoose spamming ST build. I mean bombs aside (just can’t get past this weird idea of spamming grenades at my own feet…) it’s ok-ish, if very simple and barebones. But if the utility, pet interaction and engaging gameplay/rotation is there then it’s fine. Only problem is, the current tree is so far from it it’s hard to see it working out. But hey, seems like they are quite good at listening to feedback and they are doing alpha/beta quite differently this time around.
Agreed, I try to address this with a talent tree that I mocked up in different post. DF Survival Hunter Talent Tree v1.2. If you wouldn’t mind heading over to that post and viewing the tree and giving some feedback I’d be greatly appreciative. I’m just trying to put forth solutions instead of just identifying a problem. Maybe collectively we can guide them into a better Talent Tree.
SV hunter is just Blizzard’s toy, something that they can pick up and play with until they lose interest than ignore until they remember that they still have it.
The design team thought they had made a really cool new toy for Legion but when nobody was interested with it they when back added some new paint, and expected that would finally sell it. However, that still didn’t make enough of an impact, so they just called it a niche spec and ignored it.
DF still shows that non of the developers have any thoughts on what their plans are for SV. They made a mess and now keep on passing it on to the next person to clean it up.
While I honestly think they Wanted to make a cool new spec and give some diversity to the class (I personally disagree with the decision but it’s theirs to make) I think they so far have failed quite severely. It’s never been very well played and the identity and theme of the spec is very confusing. Speaking with different people it’s clear there is no real core to the spec.
Some I’ve spoken to consider viper sting is SVs core ability. Others loved the trap focus we used to have. Now it seems we’re all about throwing bombs at ourselves, which for that matter explode in just one direction. And we’re also going back to bomb throwing and Mongoose bite spamming in DF. It’s all over the place. Oh and pets… we apparently have as much or more interaction with out pet as the Beast Master. Confusing.
It would certainly seem that someone decided to make it melee, it flopped and since then it’s just been passed around because no one can or wants to make it succeed (subjective opinion I guess). Further leading to the spec feeling so confusing and jumbled. The next person has it’s own idea of how to try and fix it but have no idea where it’s coming from or what previous designers was going for.
no i mean they’re clearly being vapid, shallow, and don’t know who they’re talking to and are rooted in small circles with clearly no idea why I’m bringing up certain topics.
they’ve not played the game at any higher level than casual to meet many other players and rooted from their poor performance, lack of experience, and small number of dungeons/raids done no one wants to talk to them or invite them back with baseless insults on me with no information being petty to say a complete stranger works at a drive thru instead of coming up with a valid retort to a single point i made while being so far off base with game knowledge it’s genuinely not worth interacting with them at all to even begin to try to explain why they’re so cooked.
i’m not going to waste my time on people like this, and neither should anyone else as they’re needlessly reductive of the conversation, and changes we’re trying to accomplish with the talent trees so every hunter can play what they want, not just their narrow selves.
I’m in favor of the old ranged survival tree coming back in some form. Let the melee group play melee as it is now and give the rest of us who want the old ranged survival abilities a new tree. There’s no reason not to. It gives us some spec and class diversity.
The whole creeping death thing was fun.
Not everyone wants to play melee, or marksmanship or beast mastery.
I think taking away melee survival would be unfair to thise that like playing it, just like it was unfair to remove ranged survival back in legion. I think the best option is a 4th specc but it is far to late in the development cycle now for that to be ready for DF, so i think for the moment the bst thing blizzard can do is improv the MM tree to give the option for some of the old survival feel.
Pretty much what I think as well. It’s way too late for Blizzard at this point. Whatever they do they will royally upset people.
I would much rather just see them get the spec to a working, coherent spec around melee that is fun to play than to keep this very weird thing we have now. Where it’s technically melee because you need melee for like 2 core abilities but everything else is pretty much ranged and most can be played from range so we are not melee but we aren’t ranged either. Just feels so torn and confusing. Rather one spec that is good and solid than one which is neither.
Same here. I remember being so hyped at the announcement for Legion. And initially was so surprised and let down it was not the BM that was going to get it, but SV. And then I got to test it and was like what is this abomination?!
And then we got to BFA beta and they reworked it and I was completely expecting them to actually keep the more “full melee” idea but make it work better (legion SV was so messy and a true “plate spinning” build that was beyond bad) but instead they… trimmed a lot of the good stuff like traps gameplay and made most of it into ranged… And then they gave us the current tier set which pretty much makes the spec full ranged. Because with enough haste you never use raptor strike and only use Serpent sting occasionally as a filler, otherwise it’s constant KC and WFB spamming from range.
Have very similar feelings on the issue. But i can understand why they choosed survival tho since Marksmen obviously wouldnt fit a melee specc and BM was the specc with most identity during WoD. But i think they messed up by reworking MM aswell since they removed the entire old hunter playstyle. Imo they should’ve just done at touch up for MM and merge survival and MM into one specc and let players thematicly choose between precise shots and special ammo in the talent tree. Tho the perfect solution would’ve just been to make a 4th specc and not delete one.
BM was A, MM was B, SV was C. They changed BM to AAAAA, MM to Z, and SV to M. That left none of the specs resembling A, B, or C, and everybody was justifiably pissed. They’ve at least made efforts to improve MM and BM gameplay in the 6 years since, with reworks, smaller adjustments, and some QoL changes, but SV has been this neglected abomination the whole time.
I think this decision has really been plagueing hunters for the last few years, i think BM is a improvment of the pre-legion one, i found Legion MM intresting but my entire class and been more or less removed when legion came so it was hard to appreiciate the new when you still liked the old.
As the link shows, I’ve reworked the concept to fit with the class changes that are coming in Dragonflight. Incl changes to design philosophies for individual specializations.
(The reading time shown in the link is for the entire topic, not the concept itself )
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