Its rather futile to try and reason about this here. We have two people, who even by their own admission are only here to troll. They will ignore every proof and evidence, throw over the chess pieces and strutt around like they had any semblance of an argument.
It worked wonders to just ignore Metroid, since he got pretty desperate for Bepples’ attention afterwards and reduced his trolling when he noticed he got less bites. Its probably time to do the same for Bruenor/Arhtemis/Damo and his other 12 alts.
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Pretty much this.
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Neither of these are even close to viable. 4th dps spec for a class will never happen and that talent point would be impossible to balance. Ranged Hunters can play BM or MM.
This also isn’t viable considering the people leading the RSV crowd. The entire movement is useless toxicity.
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Lol there is no desperation. I will continue to make fun of someone who willingly acts like a clown and hides. Pay attention. Nobody should ever be listening to you bepples or the other hideaway alt. None of you have ever had a good argument for anything and just troll and harass anyone who goes against your view. You shouldnt even be allowed here lol.
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Anyone who ever took anything you said seriously should probably delete their accounts imo.
I actually think a talent point for melee hunters would work… in the BM spec.
The reason I think that is because BM is literally designed around pets doing the majority of BM’s dps. Melee or range wouldn’t matter at all with BM. BM has like 3 shots that they regularly use (Cobra and Multi. They use Barbed shot, too). I think these 3 shots can easily translate into melee abilities if that melee talent point is taken.
Plus, you know… Rexxar the Beastmaster.
I’m curious to hear your thoughts on this.
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MM is non mobile turret garbage and nothing like old ranged survival was…
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There would be literally no reason to have a talent that reduces your attack range to melee range in a spec that can already do everything instant cast. No one would ever take that.
A fully dedicated spec like Survival gets to be designed and balanced for melee from the top down, and right now it’s one of the best specs in the game both by design and performance.
There’s no room for the old ranged survival spec in the game anymore. The 3 specs we have now are all fun and unique.
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Usually I don’t put people on the ignore list. I think posting counter-arguments is generally more effective. Arguments online aren’t about convincing the other person. That pretty much never happens. It’s about convincing the reader.
When it comes to Metroid the low-quality bait and self-contradiction generally speaks for itself. Usually he’s not even making a positive argument for SV being melee. The main deciding point for me is the fact that not too long ago Metroid was actually not such a melee-brain troll but had a decent understanding of what Survival was in classic.
Of course, nowadays he will claim that was all one big satirical joke, even though not a single person came away from any of those videos (which contained no humour, jokes, or even any absurd exaggerative statements whatsoever: see for yourself) thinking it was intended as a joke (P.S. If you’re reading this Metroid; I have saved screenshots of the video titles and descriptions so don’t try to sneakily edit them to try to make the argument work).
This isn’t any innovative tactic. Politicians, including a very prominent and crooked one that Metroid supports, do this all the time. Since they have no real principles, they say whatever is convenient and works in their favour at the moment and any prior statement of theirs that contradicts the current stance just happens to be “satire” or “sarcasm”. That’s what Metroid is; someone with no sincere beliefs or principles. When SV in classic was his favourite spec it was a ranged spec with strong melee capability, but when he starts retail again and likes melee Survival suddenly SV was always meant to be melee, it was melee in classic, and any prior statement to the contrary was just a joke. No consistency, no principles, just whatever works for his current set of values.
That’s why Metroid goes on the ignore list. At least when Damo and Forumgoblin both consistently post the most low-effort and ineffective arguments possible there still seems to be a genuine and consistent set of values, if misled. I won’t talk to someone who can’t figure out what their actual beliefs and principles are.
I always love this part of the SV debate.
Melee Hunter would be bad as a talent in a spec that would otherwise be ranged because it represents a clear downgrade and hardly anyone would take it.
Melee Hunter as a spec in a class that’s otherwise ranged is fine, though, even as the years have proven that hardly anyone takes it.
This is just the plain old “it’s designed that way!” thought-terminating statement. SV has the same utility as BM and MM; the only difference being the gap closer Harpoon (since a melee spec without a gap closer would be unviable in modern WoW) and Spirit Bond, something just stolen from BM. In fact SV’s utility and mitigation toolkit is so poor as a melee spec it’s generally not preferred in high-end PvE, and in PvP it has to stick to ranged in many situations. They didn’t “design and balance” for squat. They tacked on a range restriction to an otherwise ranged class and called it a day, just to chase tokenistic uniqueness.
SV Hunters harping on about how the spec is the best thing ever doesn’t change a thing. If it’s so well designed and performs so well how come it still sees hardly any players? Maybe some people will pick it up now that they handed it an absurdly overtuned borrowed power that a) eliminates all build and legendary choice from the spec, which calls into question the whole “well designed” part, b) won’t exist after this patch, and c) revolves around a ranged ability that would fit the earlier ranged Survival better than current melee Survival anyway. Who knows; but the last time SV was clearly ahead of the rest of the class in damage it still saw extremely low representation.
What’s unique about an Arms Warrior wannabe with a bunch of stolen BM abilities + a grenade? We don’t need SV to be melee to make a unique spec. All that does is make most of the Hunter class want to avoid it. You consistently ignore this fact, by the way.
SV Hunters love this line; so much concern about how a ranged Survival might hold up in the class despite a) being very successful in the class and b) melee SV holding up so consistently badly.
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They steer the conversation. But they make points to support their position of either 4th spec (blech) or revert to ranged. Every MSV post is effectively an invitation to start this debate. There are very few that aren’t designed for being derailed like some kind of air show rocket car stunt.
The only part of modern spirit bond taken from old spirit bond is the 1% pet regen, which is a footnote on modern spirit bond.
I’d support renaming it, but its not exactly an ability that affects the fantasy much. No one cares about spirit bond except to support arguments that SV ripped off BM.
If by steer the conversation you mean derail every single SV thread into this idiocy for six years to the point no one even comes here to seriously discuss the spec any more than sure.
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Speak for yourself lmao
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You put me on ignore because you realized I was making trolling videos before we ever met and you took them to be serious even though it was plain as day. You got embarrassed. Once I said I can get your discord you went into hiding.
This here alone is why I think you are on a spectrum. You havent made a solid point this entire time you been here homie.
I guess you missed the video where I showed you how to play MM and it was played stupidly on purpose because I hate the spec. For the life of me I do not know how you cant tell what a parody is. I even told you from the get go it was a joke and you didnt wanna believe it because you just wanted a reason to cry for addition attention here.
LOL WHO? I dont even support a single politician. Again you went off another joke video you complete clown show.
Maybe I just make fun of stupid people online and you take the bait with me putting in no effort what so ever.
The channels description for the last 3 years has said its a joke channel. Learn to read.
Pretty sure you got scared once I told you I know how to locate you. The thing is when people try and censor or banish another person, its because you are just a straight up coward and know if they cant defend themselves in a 1v1 you think thats some sort of victory. Nobody in their right mind should ever listen to anything that comes from you. Like I know im a troll, but you have the intellect of a 4 year old. People get over being widowed faster than you do about losing the second MM spec.
I been saying it forever, mental gymnastics
Just bring up his discord info and watch him bolt tf out of here for another 5 days.
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… that is what Spirit Bond was. This isn’t a rebuttal to the point that SV stole Spirit Bond. In fact it makes it a lot worse because they took Spirit Bond and made it a much more integral and significant part. It was originally a BM thing aside from MoP and WoD when it was classwide. It should not ever be unavailable to BM. If they want to make it a mastery, it should be BM’s mastery.
Every other melee SV forum warrior uses Spirit Bond as a specific example of why they think SV apparently doesn’t rip off BM because SV is a “companion of beasts rather than a master of beasts”, so evidently it does affect the fantasy.
Despite SV being made melee ostensibly to avoid overlapping with another spec’s identity, it’s outright robbing BM of a major component of its identity. Every time you see an asinine post about how “Survival is more BM than BM!” that’s a testament to that fact.
Ideal 
What exactly are you trying to dispute here?
Yes, everyone is unlikely to change their mind in a forum argument in response to a counterargument. I’m not exempting myself from that. Everyone has their own values and opinions that frame their position in these arguments.
P.S. Why did you sweep this part of the argument under the rug?
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MM only has to stay still for Aimed Shot, it’s hardly non-mobile.
That’s what I been saying for months. If you take the spoon away then they will starve.
Soon as anyone starts feeding them then they will keep coming back for seconds.
Yes it would be easy to have Lacerate stand in for Barbed Shot and Butchery replace Multi-Shot. They would work same as there range counterparts.
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You are simply winning Bepple’s argument for why MSV was a mistake. If melee would not work for one spec then how can it work for another?
It would have been even simpler to have a few changes made to BM than a complete overhaul of SV. There would be a melee option for Hunters and range SV would still be around.
Also before anyone says anything about MSV is better how would you know when it would have never been in the game?
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Would please reframe from using this one insult. My son is autistic and not a label anyone should have. He great kid and may have difficulty with some areas that doesn’t mean he is stupid or not uneducated.
There’s plenty of other words that can be used if anyone needs to add slur to their arguments.
Seen a couple of your videos and thought they were more informative than joking around. I took them as being more serious about how Hunters worked. Also the MM video seems to try to explain how SV could be played with the right talents.
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Plus, the whole “SV was always meant to be melee!” video is also on the same channel. Is that one also satire?
“I was just joking/being sarcastic!” is the laziest of excuses. It’s not even original. It’s one of the most popular responses for hypocrites and all types of people who have trouble reconciling past statements with current stances. Like I said, politicians use this excuse often.
For reference of what an actual satirical WoW video looks like, here’s a good one from last expansion:
There’s actual wit and relevant humour in here. In contrast, I don’t think a single person ever came away from any of Metroid’s videos thinking it was intended as ironic or satirical… aside from a recent one he made about me, of course, which is just flattering. They’re presented as honest opinions and thoughts on WoW class design. In fact I had seen his videos long before I ever saw him post on these forums and you can even see my older replies on a couple of them with constructive feedback. Until he started playing retail and went all out on melee SV there weren’t even any particularly absurd statements, while the whole point of satire is deriving humour from absurdity.
But I’m preaching to the choir here. I’ve not seen anyone other than Metroid himself actually defend the whole satire angle.
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