True, no way they would make such drastic changes mid xpack. Would be cool if in the new trees (in the future) they could give us the tools to have like a classic survival build within the tree. Like branching options similar to how the DF Druid talents essentially subclass into the other specs, but instead its like MM Arcane Archer build, MM Windrunner build (Ft. Windburst return), and a standard MM build.
Definitely true. I can’t even imagine how much testing is done for SV to try to bring more people over to the spec.
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One of my major gripes is Wildfire Bomb. It feels wrong to have explosives in a ranger/hunter fantasy. Traps make sense with rangers trapping beasts and such, but explosives??? Wildfire Bomb is a Tinker/Alchemist fantasy and with how much it’s built into the spec seems disconnected to the fantasy when I play the spec.
***My opinion has adjusted a little bit on this comment, see Numenorean comment below
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Not a zinger, just a fact. Being able to play sv at range with Dot abilities is something people can in df it just wont be viable, as for the design i can see them making changes, however i can’t see them making ranged sv changes at all which people will still be dissatisfied with.
man you were doing really well until this point
i call cap on your experience as a hunter if you find umbrage with explosives on a spec that traditionally had explosive shot as part of it’s bread and butter
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That’s fair, never thought of it with that perspective. I guess I always felt like it was magical explosions or something growing up but now looking back seems silly lol. I still feel there’s a weird dichotomy with a ranger fantasy and explosives and my feelings toward the spec remain consistent but it’s a bit more palatable now.
It also had Explosive Trap from the beginning. Explosives fit well into the Hunter archetype because they represent practical utility. They just don’t fit with being melee.
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In the past the traps all had basically the same model, the iconic foothold trap style, with just the middle crystal/effect being a bit different. It seemed magically enchanted back then but now with the models being updated to more in line with the explosive motif it makes more sense.
And with the not fitting being melee; It feels exactly like what has been happening a lot since Legion. We would have these really cool abilities and then blizzard would take them away and start us over. That sense of borrowed power being taken away is similar to how it feels now with Survival having their range taken away but instead of it being from last expansion it’s from the very beginning of the game.
I’ve been linking that clip from the Liquid Max stream a few times lately because it shows how Survival is viewed by people with a more informed and objective perspective:
But it’s worth watching the minute or so before that part I clipped as well. Podra points out that perhaps Survival is bad because it has no history to fall back on. Every other spec has an established history either back to the start of the game or when they were added. Survival is a spec that was abruptly remade in Legion, then again in BFA. They never decided what to focus its identity on so there’s very little to build on to create a cohesive tree.
And, of course, Survival was remade in the era of bad class design philosophy and borrowed power so it suffers even more from that.
As Max said: it’s hard to see how anyone views remaking Survival into a melee spec was a success. When you take everything into account it’s easily the most destructive class change they ever made.
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So one way to potentially improve survival is to really define its identity. Comparing it to all of the other melee specs I feel it’s quite obvious what its identity/niche is, the Pet. Survival is the only melee spec that utilized a pet that deals damage, provides buffs, and party utility. The only problem is that identity is shared with potentially all hunter specs across the class and is even specialized even further with BM, and easy, fully mobile range spec. Melee has carved its niche out in the general DPS category by being fully mobile themselves, bar the occasional Demonic Eye type ability from DH. Range basically comes at the cost of having casting abilities except in the case of BM, where you were basically a weird melee range hybrid.
It’s a bit of a weird thing to say but hear me out. Your pets are all melee and they do a large majority of your damage and you maintain all of the benefits of no casted mobility while still being range. You have the best of both worlds, melees cast-free mobility and ranges distance and safety. You could easily describe BM and survival in a similar manner, a range melee hybrid that utilized a pet to deal damage and isn’t impaired by casting. The difference comes in with it moving the player from range a majority of the time, into melee a majority of the time.
Talking about these specs makes them sound fairly familiar which it feels like they are. For years Blizz has billed the BM hunter as one who is adjoined with there pets ferocity, Bestial Wrath and The Beast Within which was an old school BM talent. Now they’re moving away from that and trying to give it to survival which is just making it feel like, especially for what seems like the old school players, a weird flavor of BM that forces you into melee and you can’t decide on what it tastes like. Imagine the feeling you’ve had sometime in your life where you drink a drink or eat some food and it’s so strange to you that you can’t even process in your head what your experiencing, let alone if you even like it, so much so that you get that 
face and then go back for another bite to try and figure it out.
To be it’s own thing in the melee realm survival has to cannibalize what makes BM unique, which it does mediocrely, and everyone is just left with a bad taste in their mouth.
You know your armory is public right? We can all see you haven’t completed a single LFR, or any other difficulty of raid, the entire expansion. You have a good M+ score (better than me) in a season where your spec is hilariously overturned. You have zero pvp experience.
How about you attack the argument rather than the poster? I get you’re morally obligated to mock anyone who asks for RSV, but the OP wasn’t even that - he just asked for more attention to the spec as it hasn’t seen significant changes since BFA alpha.
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Yes! But I also been playing the spec even when it wasnt great 
Why bother LFR when I just did Normal? I just do random bgs. See you would have a better argument if you know what kind of player I was. I do mythic plus with friends. I dont care about keystone or anything like that. My records dont mean anything since Im just playing for fun which is kinda the point of this game. Probably why im not whining about every little thing because its a video game and shouldnt be taken so seriously.
I know you dont know this because your new to the hunter forums and all, but I originally did this. But since I was apposing Bepples nothing I ever said would mean anything because I enjoyed the spec he hated. SO because of that now when I see someone being stupid here I just cant help myself, aka someone who has little to no time playing the spec talking about class structure. Its like seeing someone think they are a mechanic because they saw a 4 minute youtube video. So.
Not really. I dont have an issue with people wanting RSV. Its when they cause flame wars about it, or when they constantly whine or tone police it THATS when I like to have my fun. As I have stated a multitude of times, I wouldn’t mind it to come back if it was an option, not a replacement. As of the new version of the games lore, this is officially a fully melee spec. No need to change it back to a bow, you have two other specs that do that already.
Bruh he has zero idea on what he was even referring too. I promise you he probably picked up the class, seen a few videos/ and jumped into the hunter forums copying the same repetitive lines about some dude crying about nothing that continues to plague these forums… Kinda like what you did when you first showed up. You guys seem to keep popping up from doing just that.
And no I dont care if you pull that whole, i PlAyEd SiNcE vAnIlLa line. People always love to resort to that line. Seems to always be more players who played since vanilla than there were actual Vanilla players.
I’m not new to WoW, nor the forums. I took a break, then came back. I’ve been around a good long while.
Note the achievement for Tabard of the Protector, which was for the TBC launch event.
Damn man, you came back from a break and still hardly done anything with this class.
Nice!
From what I can tell, a lot of people on the Hunter forums have Toxiktraktor on ignore, he’s just a troll. Not worth your time, just report the posts for trolling and let him wallow in his own fumes.
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Oh this is a fantastic PSA. Thank you for reminding me to do this. Trash-be-gone!
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Yep. He’s the only poster I have on ignore because none of his arguments are sincere. He used to argue about how SV was not a melee spec in Classic before abruptly changing his mind and deciding SV was always meant to be melee and was a true melee spec in Classic. He also used to post on alts to back up his main because he didn’t understand we could see from the achievement points that it’s the same person.
I mean what do you expect from a person who in one of his videos implied a certain often-persecuted minority was secretly ruling the world…
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Wait, what? 
timestamp please 
Whos trolling though? Im just doing what You do aswell. I havent done anything different. You only think its trolling because I disagree with you. Thats not how this works.
lol who even are you?
You mean when I told you my thoughts and you didnt agree with them and you got shut down by like 4 other people who agreed with me? How funny you claim this.
Again here comes that misinformation campaign of yours. You stake this claim off of what you already are aware of to be mockery videos. You struggled with that until you realized that then changed your tone. There is a reason I continue to laugh at you Jerry.
When did I do this? Lol? Literally when?
what in the actual f* are you even talking about? Are you confusing me with someone else or is this just your attempt at slandering again cause thats all you ever do here when someone challenges you. Lets not forget the real reason you blocked me isnt for what you claimed above, its because I told you I could get your discord information and you panicked. Stop lying so much. Like jfc. Its embarrassing Jerry. Your literally the biggest coward on the forums lmfao
I checked and it looks like he deleted the channel or it got banned. He had a separate channel where he talked about politics and it was as toxic (or should I say “toxik”) as you could imagine. Basically just one of the dime-a-dozen MAGA youtube Tim Pool ripoff accounts. The channel was called BazzbeTV and there’s a new one with the same name that’s only 4 months old.
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