Then, isn’t it best to post replies with comments pertaining to said discussions?
Specifically here, about why SV has to(or not) be melee. And why it would or wouldn’t be a good idea to change it, as well as what the preferable alternative would/could be.
As opposed to comments that are unrelated to the discussion at hand.
You think balancing is not relevant to a discussion about potentially adding an entirely new spec to the game? 
Not what I said.
You introduced the argument of balance as one against the idea of adding another hunter spec, yet when confronted, you excused it for not being an argument against such, but rather just a general concern for the class.
Ofc balance is relevant to the number of specs we have. But it’s not a sufficient argument to use in order to justify not adding one more spec. For reasons already mentioned further up in here.
I think you just want to argue about split hairs or something. At this point the discussion has been so throughly derailed it’s not even about the topic. So let’s get it back on track, shall we?
I like msv, I don’t think rsv needs to return. (Doesn’t mean I am against it. Just don’t feel it is crucial for my enjoyment of the game/class.) Some folks feel differently, that’s cool. Everyone’s got an opinion. It’s also my opinion that should rsv make a return (Unlikely, but stranger things…) it would be a balancing nightmare when weighed against msv. So I feel like people would complain. But then they always do, right? Yeah, some would be angry their spec is not better/the best, but some folks would be happy just to have the choice. (I like choices) They would lavish Blizz with praise! Others just wont care. So go for it I say (as I have before). Bring it back and let the chips fall where they may! I may even decide to give it a go.
But right now it’s just disscussion (can’t even call it speculation unless there’s some new info about rsv I am unaware of) so I will just keep sharing my thoughts on the topic as I please. If you would like to keep attempting to dissect my every word for what you interpret as their meaning go ahead. I will do my best to correct you.
If there is a poorly performing spec, it is not unreasonable to fear that said spec, if another spec is introduced, may suffer in the realm of public opinion even more. One of the issues with MSV is that it lacks unique utility, and an argument against adding unique utility like other melee specs, is that it would alienate ranged hunters or make them feel forced to play MSV.
Adding a 4th spec cant fix MSVs issues. It cant solve anything for ranged hunter fans that want RSV back that removing MSV in favor of RSV wouldn’t solve better… cleaner and with less resources.
The anti-msv hate won’t go away in the wake of a 4th spec. Though a few people will be satisfied, Bepples will still be right about SVs inherent weakness. Group leaders will still kick the MSVs. MSV fans will still cling to tribalist loyalty, which is only increased by their persecution.
Some of this I agree with, and some I don’t. I really just want something I thematically love and had for years back. To me, MSV is really only relevant because it’s what replaced something I loved. I actively argue for those interested in it to still play it, I won’t shy away from criticisms about the spec but I also acknowledge there’s some cool stuff going on there.
This might just be me and I know that this is honestly sort of stupid here, but I’d probably enjoy MSV more as something to occasionally try out if it hadn’t removed the old SV. Hell, I have played it somewhat already at least during Legion to try and give it a fair shake haha.
I don’t hate MSV, and I think a lot of people who criticize it are probably in a similar boat. It’s not my cup of tea, but really my only issue is I just want to play an arcane archer again but can’t. I’m certain you’re right that some people will keep hating it regardless, and those people will be kind of silly in my eyes.
Outside of the hunter community, I agree that MSV needs some sort of meaningful unique utility. Even when the damage numbers are higher, it still seems like the red headed step child for reasons we’ve all discussed here adnauseum. I think if they both gave it something unique and brought back the old SV, MSV wouldn’t be forced to live in its shadow from the hunter community. That in turn could help change the larger community perspective as a whole to the spec.
I always argue for a fourth spec because I think trying to maintain the MSV playstyle for those who enjoy it is important. I also think removing it would be making the same mistake that happened to the old spec. Let people play what they want Blizz, seriously.
I know this was sort of ranty, I’m tired. I just wanted to try and express I really don’t hate the spec or anyone who enjoys it. I just want to have something I loved back in some manner is all.
That they do yes.
I can only encourage you(anyone) to look at it from the point of view of that of other players, and not just yourself. Which is sort of what you’ve already done here.
Balancing as in numbers and performance?
We went over this earlier but…
Yep
You are ofc free to post whatever you want.
But if you post arguments against something that other players want, expect them to engage in a discussion pertaining to said arguments.
I only “dissect” what you write in context of the current discussion, in a way to equate your underlying meaning with what you’ve written, based on said discussion. If you then say that what you post isn’t meant to be taken in that context then that’s on you, not on other players for assuming different.
Debatable, if you take other players into consideration.
Ofc it wouldn’t fix most of MSV’s issues but why should it? And at the same time, if MSV has issues, find a way to fix them without simply removing the spec altogether? Preferably a way that won’t have a massive impact on the other hunter specs and their potential usefulness.
Most of it will.
What’s actually called for and what is the perception of parts of the community, rarely falls in line with one another.
Lazy said it well in his/her reply(in it’s entirety, not just the quote here).
I picked up a scythe last night and decided to respec into for Survival for some questing. Pretty fun. I took some less than meta skills to give me more buttons to press because my biggest complaint is not enough to do in the rotation.
If you don’t mind me asking, what lvl is your SV Hunter? While I love the spec I’ll be the first to admit it’s rotation/flow is very underwhelming and doesn’t feel good until unlocking key components. (Carve getting upgraded to reduce bomb cooldown, Bloodseeker + Alpha Predator, Mongoose Bite, Wildfire Infusion, etc.) Although I do love how the skills greatly play off of each other, on their own they don’t hold up very well and require the other often upgraded skills to have any sort of impact. (With the exception to Wildfire Bomb)
On a side note I often see claims for people to make MSV like Red Mage in FFXIV. To that I have to ask how many have actually played RDM as opposed to just hearing about it? MSV already plays like RDM (Kill Command to build focus, Mongoose Bite to spend it on a melee combo) While I can’t speak for everyone as someone who’s played both I prefer MSV to RDM, mainly due to how Wildfire Infusion keeps you on your toes somewhat so you’re not repeating the same “1-2-1-2-1-2-melee combo-3-1-2-1-2-1-2” rotation that RDM has.
World content is where SV shines the most, IMO. Followed by 5 mans. There is no better spec for leather farming. The harpoon build makes it a blast, and I switch to chakrams.
I can think of a better spec; BM, which can gather and mow down the mobs at high efficiency with a strong pet tank and ranged attacks.
I’m 60 if youre speaking to me
Ah, was going to encourage you that it does get much better over time but you’re already there lol. Carry on soldier!
As long as we don’t have the option it will continue . If we get a 4th spec option for a version of Rsurv , we won’t care about msurv and you can continue to play your very unpopular spec to your hearts content . But until that happens well suck it up Buttercup because the bashing will continue.
But thats not better. I can use serpent sting to bring the mobs to me, and use JUST as strong of a pet, use bombs (and clusters) and chakrams and carve to AoE down the groups, then I dont have to move to skin, and I can harpoon over to the next group and start again. There is nothing that BM can do to farm skins that SV cant do better.
Except, if Im farming more than just skins, having a waterwalking pet can be helpful.
It is better. BM can spec into Barrage to gather even more, but even without Barrage BM has Multi-Shot plus the ability to be dealing full damage while constantly moving at range. Tab-targetting and Serpent Stinging to gather mobs to the player is laughably slow and innefective in comparison. BM pets are stronger because, not to mention the extra exotic pet passive, the pet is the one outputting all the damage which means more threat and more importantly more healing from Ferocity leech. BM pets are capable of handling more mobs at once which results in the Hunter being able to handle more. The mobs will also be gathered on the pet which trivialises skinning and BM has no need for things like Harpoon given its full ranged mobility. BM’s AoE is also strong, especially if it’s War Mode and you have the stupidly powerful Dire Beast: Hawk which is uncapped.
BM is and has always been the best spec for any sort of solo play for Hunters. There have been plenty of people suggesting Survival in the past couple of expansions but that’s largely a delusional effort to make the spec seem good at something. There’s a reason every single Hunter speed leveller did it as BM and why BM is the preferred spec for Torghast. SV is only good when compared to casters/other melee specs, and even then it loses out to things like Demon Hunters and even Death Knights.
Shouldnt be an issue on farming skins.
And if there was an issue, you could spec hydra’s bite. But typically, mobs are grouped close enough together that you can grab more than one mob on a harpoon, sting another mob, have at least one die in a couple globals, resetting harpoon so you can shoot over to the next group kiting the mobs you have left while sting and bleeds tick down. While you can shoot all the mobs in range to pull them, as a BM hunter, you need to pay attention to pet AI to keep them from stopping where the pet meets them and instead actually come to you. Also, its no different than just shooting mobs, and adds no variety that you cant get from any other content. The SV farming playstyle is this unique and exciting whirlwind of action and mobility. BM is like Moonkin in that you pull and AoE down, but its only really more effective in an insta spawn area and with a partner or bot skinning.
BM and SV both suck right now. BM has the advantage of range, but most of BMs advantages dont play into farming skins. The activity doesnt require much throughput. Furthermore, SV clusters is the best trash AoE in the game right now and it’s not cooldown dependent.
Depends on how many you’re pulling, but the fact of the matter is BM can handle more at once.
Not really because Kill Command and Barbed Shot will cause the pet to immediately charge over to the next target.
It isn’t about fun, for one, but for a lot of people BM’s full freedom of movement and range is also fun. In fact, it sounds like what you’re describing is much more in line with what a Warrior does.
BM is effective in all solo content, in fact, and doesn’t need help. Why would BM need help and not SV?
Nonsense. BM plays into farming extremely well with its full ranged mobility and pet-focused damage. Not requiring much throughput just makes it worse for SV when its primary advantage is more on-demand uncapped AoE. Besides; that would require committing a legendary craft to Survival which is a huge ask to say the least.
Again, pretty much anyone who does anything in terms of high-efficiency solo content does it as BM. A quick check on youtube and online guides shows that most Hunters doing things like skinning are doing it as BM. You’re kidding yourself if you think SV is better and the only reason you believe that is your overwhelming pro-melee bias.
There is zero question about this. BM is the only spec for hunters that we have that is actually strong enough and has the right tool kit to actually solo dungeons and raid bosses. Survival does not. BM is by far better at soloing content.
Other content is trivial to solo and could be done by any spec, honestly so the comparisons don’t really make a whole lot of sense if we’re talking farming old raids or something.