Survival hunters have the most muddled, boring, nonsensical class fantasy in the game

I’ll start this thread out by saying I’m only going to be talking about the class fantasy and aesthetics of the spec, not the gameplay, as well I also didn’t come here to whine about hunters not having three ranged specs like almost every thread discussing survivals class fantasy. I love the fact that hunters have a melee spec and I probably wouldn’t touch the class if they didn’t, I’m pretty sure the only reason people whine about survival being melee is because they want a third ranged spec to play around with when they get bored of the other two or they get nerfed, the amount of people attatched to the pre-legion version of survival from a aesthetic and class fantasy standpoint is microscopic.

Ultimately, my issue is, survival hunters that they feel like they’re in a similar situation to combat rogues, they sort of have a class fantasy, but it’s both compromised and boring. Before they became melee their class fantasy, which was a sort of survivalist tracker and trapper and actual huntsman (like, someone who tracks and kills animals), and that’s still roughly what it is today.

There’s two big problems with this, firstly, even if they stayed or returned to being ranged, very very few players would be interested in survival from a purely class fantasy standpoint, it’s boring and too niche. I’ve been playing since early wrath, I cannot remember a single person saying that survival was “cool” in a aesthetic sense, pre-rework the only reason 99% of players played survival was because it was either good, mechanically fun, or both. The second problem is, the survivalist, tracker, trapper and hunter, makes no sense at all melee, what so ever. Throwing bombs that expode in your face don’t make sense, dropping traps in the middle of combat is comically stupid sounding and I can’t imagine that in a canonical in universe sense anyone is doing this, and there’s no bridge connecting the gadgety mechanical side of survival hunters with their melee moves, which are largely flavourless and from a purely aesthetical standpoint are no different from something you’d in universe see a warrior do.

However, I have to address the elephant in the room, BM from a lore and aesthetic standpoint should have been the melee spec, there are a lot of reasons other people have mentioned, foremost being a beast master fighting WITH (next to, melee) his pets makes more sense, rexxar, whos on the survival hunter talent tree background, is literally referred to as a beastmaster, etc etc, other people have explained it so if you want to know look into it. Despite this, however, I do not think blizzard should have made, BM the melee spec, the ship to rework specs already sailed in legion, but even if you had a time machine BM hunter as a spec is incredibly popular, and radically changing how it played would cause massive upheaval and controversy, and from a business standpoint this just isn’t a good idea, BM absolutely fits melee much MUCH better, but blizzard can’t, won’t, and shouldn’t make BM melee.

So what’s the solution, what should survival be? Frankly, I have no idea. All of the best options have been eliminated, the best I could think of, and this is pretty half hearted, is to rework the entire spec the way they did combat, keeping it melee but ditching the gadgety mechanical side, and perhaps even renaming it. Perhaps making it a “wild man” who is melee and throws spears and is generally uncivilized and outside of society? Basically a warrior (aesthetically, not gameplay) with pets, but this is a pretty half hearted suggestion, in reality I really don’t know, all I know is right now it makes no sense at all the way it is.

TL;DR Survivals class fantasy sucks, if it went back to being ranged it would make more sense but still be incredibly, aggressively dull and boring. And hunters are ultimately a class that has had its lore and class fantasy ravaged and brutalized on the altar of gameplay and community appeasement.

Edit: I forgot to mention, I’m posting this here instead of the hunter class forum because this exclusively has to do with the lore and class fantasy of survival hunters, not gameplay. So I think it fits here better.

let me introduce you to monk

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No way, monks are way stronger in terms of themes. Perhaps limiting maybe but it’s nowhere near survival hunter.

As someone who played a Combat Rogue from Vanilla through… deletion… I would say Combat Rogues are a little worse off.

Aesthetically? I’m not here to talk about mechanics.

As in Combat Rogues got erased and replaced by Outlaw…. yes.

With the pistols and the pirate stuff being forced on you, when Combat was more open. Combat felt more like… a brawler. Outlaw narrowed the aesthetic.

At least Survival exists. Combat is gone.

RIP

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I really don’t think combat ever had a confident class fantasy. It always seemed and still does seem incredibly nebulous, like a warrior in leather. Ultimately you can consider outlaw to be incredibly kitschy or corny but I feel like it’s a fantasy that players wanted and wasn’t being met at all.

I get your sentiment but I can’t think of a single person who loves the class fantasy of survival pre or post legion rework. The full extent of liking survivals class fantasy is “Ah cool, melee hunter” but that’s it lol, nobody loves the bombs and traps and hooks, and the other melee moves it has are very bland (Although admittedly preferable to it being a weird quasi engineering gadget themed spec).

They’re not awful to play but the whole “look at my spear also my turtle BAM GRENADES!” Is weird

I really wish the monk fantasy was opened up a bit more in the game.

A lightly armored brawler who relies on the art of fisticuffs and occasional liquid fortification (or just sheer skill) works for a lot of the races out there, but it’s dramatically underutilized outside of Pandaren stuff. Like, the only example I can think of is Blademaster Telamon using monk skills and the random night elf who kicked Saurfang in the face. I know that gameplay restrictions aren’t the same as lore by any means, but I’d really like to see monk get utilized more. Especially since the class is so inviting for dramatic fantasy moments.

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Yeah, again it’s not abou the mechanics of the class, it’s about the aesthetics and class fantasy.

Well mechanics can be part of the aesthetic. Especially the way that poster put it.

If anyone here remembers Star Wars Galaxies - I played a Twilek who focused on Polearms and midrange Carbines. I loved wielding a polearm, with a mid range blaster. It was Melee heavy with range. I loved it.

Survival Hunters are almost like that - but the traps and pets, which are fine for MM and BM, just feel odd.

Same with BM Monk - oh great, Agility Polearm user, sign me up…. but they really just keep it on their back and use it very rarely.

Guardian/Feral Druids use them, but they turn into animals, so the weapon isn’t even seen.

So I think the mechanics are a part of the aesthetic, in some cases.

For sure, I’d love to see a less spiritual version of monks more based on brawling.

I get where you’re coming from and yes they work together but I still stand by the fact that the majority of people who loved combat or loved survival pre-legion rework only felt that way from a mechanical standpoint, rather than thinking that the spec looked cool.

As it stands right now I’d prefer if survival hunter focused more on the “melee hunter” aspect and just scrapped the gadgets from an aesthetic standpoint.

If we have decided that BM is less so a hunter who fights “with” their pets and more one that just kind of orders them around like a military officer on the battlefield (think that hound master from the scarlet monastery) . Then survival should fit the fantasy of a more primalistic Rexxar style hunter who is a duo with his pet, so like a kind of early neanderthal caveman hunting with his tamed wolf and throwing spears sort of deal, this would fit more with the mongoose bite. As it stands right now it’s just a little silly and eye rolling that the hunter who loves gadgets like bombs and traps and spring loaded hooks doesn’t use a gun, there is really no aesthetic bridge between the gadget side of survival and the melee side they just kinda awkwardly exist together.

I have a mechagnome survival hunter i leveled back in bFA, so he is still level 50.

Hunter as a class is like Warrior, its core fantasy is very non specific to allow for every race to have their own version. But, survival hunter has a very specific moveset that really deviates from the non specific class fantasy, the problem is not that you’re a melee user that fights with a pet, the problem is that you’re this weird thing with bombs, hooks and all sorts of really weird equipment that doesn’t fit most race fantasies.

Thats why i kinda went with mechagnome, the weirdest fit.

Yeah, this is why I’d prefer a less specific more “bland” melee focused spec that had more moves in a similar style to mongoose bite than something that’s weird and hyper specific while also being muddled.

I share a lot of this sentiment. I like everything about survival in its current implementation, except the explosives and gadgetry. Bombs just don’t go with the class at all imo. It goes with some races, sure, but that type of ability could just as easily have a different (glyphed) animation to fit the thematics of other races too. Same could be said with outlaw, a glyph to turn pistol animations into a hatchet or thrown knife.

The only way I’ve found any semblance of uncomfortable peace with it is that Azeroth’s adventurers face a lot of differing enemies, a survival hunter would in theory be a survivalist first and foremost therefore they would be prepared for any situation. They may even have bombs and make use of fire to take down mechanical targets or even vehicles, if that’s where their intentions lie. Still, it’s… not great.

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The SV moveset honestly feels like they decided to make SV the “melee hunter” spec and just sort of stopped there. Then when Legion was about to launch, they threw whatever ideas they didn’t use for other melee classes, for engineering and for on-use trinkets all into the class.

It feels too disjointed. I don’t care for it at all.

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What exactly is your probem then? The most iconic Hunter in lore, one of the most popular characters, Rexxar is solidly a melee hunter with pet… He’s the only pure iconic Hunter in lore.

I don’t know if you skimmed my post, I’m not anti melee hunter, I’m anti gadget using hunter. The aesthetics of a melee hunter using hooks and gadgets are weird. And don’t make sense.

Yeah I won’t say that I don’t feel like survival doesn’t make any sense at all, it just seems like it appeals to very very few people. Also, the idea of a “survivalist” preferring melee is silly to me. (But still I do want melee hunters lol)

The Fact that they Reclassified Rexxar as a Survival hunter in any media that involves him having his class indicated makes me go 200% Mad because how dare they rob Beast Master of their Poster Boy

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I would like if survival hunter actually had melee skills instead of bombs and hookshots. And maybe dual wielding.

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