Cough start of xpac cough
Also that’s not how you use tip.
The only change to your gamplay is that you don’t use more than 3 kill commands, otherwise whether you use 3x kc then raptor or raptor kc raptor did not change your dps…
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This one is 13.
Honestly we would have be good to go if they just turned the azerite traits we had into passives and did something about the 45 talent tree
We lose more than we gain when we walk into shadow lands it feels like
Aside from that we just needed some minor work to flesh the spec out
3 Likes
So here’s my input on Survival so far.
Mongoose Bite should not be a talent and be a baseline ability. Change Tip of the Spear to increase Mongoose dmg by 3-5% more per stack, and add new 2nd talent “Guerilla Warfare” Grants 3% Agility while using Wildfire bomb or Successful trap, stacks 3 times.
Terms of engagement should make it so harpoon can be use in Melee.
There is really no “Survival” PvP Talents, such as Marks and BM have for damage. Here’s an idea for 1 “Ignition” Targets affect by Tar trap getting hit by Wildfire Bomb sets the targets in flames Deals 15% of Targets Health over 5 seconds. Would make this talent very skill base but also makes Survival hunters have some real nice Cleaving potential.
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I would be happy if they focused more on control and damage instead of debating Melee vs Ranged. Historically the spec has had some many items phased out that could have and should have been back with the Legion overhaul.
- Wyvern Sting
- Actually making Improved Traps something other than a shorter CD.
- Expose Weakness
- Improved Wing Clip Root or even Counterstrike.
It also needs
- Better Defensive Abilities (Not a Tank Spec Opinion) to make Survival more Survivable. Don’t be lazy and just buff Spirit Bond Mastery Interaction.
- If we have to use 2 Handed Weapons incorporate that into the spec. A Polearm just screams for a leg sweep type ability.
2 Hand vs Dual Wield, Melee vs Ranged is not the root of the problem with the spec. They don’t have a clear vision of the spec or if they do they have failed to share it with the playerbase. Giving it back Steady Shot and Arcane shot just compounded the frustration and confusion to the novice hunters. I find the spec extremely fun to play but it is a niche spec and most definitely not for everyone.
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My point exactly
Love all of your input here, great ideas
Instead of comparing it to its ranged counterparts make it UNIQUE thats what im saying, forget the other hunter specs, focus on SURVIVAL not hunters overall.
Forgot about that too, warrior’s got it back, why cant we?! Higher attack speed with mongoose bite builds versus slower hard hitting tip of the spear 2h builds to give it diversity then the lvl 45 talent row will have a reason again
They just need to give me creative control of survival hunters and I’ll fix it right up
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Be like 5% peeved that one has effectively picked up a sample of a new formula of Pepsi, the feedback sheet for which reads, “We’re still improving this; please don’t complain that the old formula, which tasted too much like Coke, was lost if you’re not going to also to provide feedback on how the new formula itself can be improved” and, after the faintest sip, written “Bring back old Pepsi!” in giant letters, because it’s very much worth writing, but would be better written elsewhere.
You have me intrigued. Details, candidate?
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So after some thinking about my own ideas and seeing suggestions, I think AoE DoT would make a good mechanical identity for SV. Right now BM is the fully mobile ranged utility spec and MM I think should be the hard hitting single target spec. This would not only make it more distinct from the other Hunter specs (melee not withstanding), but make it unique among other melee specs too. Right now there’s one, maybe two melee DoT specs, Feral and perhaps Assassination. Haven’t gotten far on my Rogue to know. And neither are really focused on AoE.
Now my suggestions.
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Mongoose Bite, Butchery, and Wildfire Infusion baseline with some changes. Butchery no longer has a cooldown or charges. And maybe let it share the buff with MB.
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Wildfire Infusion changes. A set rotation, Inferno Bomb sets targets on fire. Volatile Bomb sets off a gas that poisons targets and if they’re on fire, explodes for a little more AoE damage. And finally Shrapnel Bomb causes bleeds and targets that are poisoned take additional poison burst damage. Repeat.
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Decouple focus gen from the pet. Right now if your pet dies or bugs out, you’re basically kneecapped. Not sure what to add here though.
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A new Mastery that actually does something more often than not. The more DoTs you have on the target, the less damage they will. Lean into the weakening of the target and actual survival. Kill shot also does more damage the more DoTs are on the target for funsies.
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Proper AoE CC. I saw someone mention Leg Sweep with the polearm. That would be great. Throw in Tar Trap perhaps having a chance to slip enemies that walk through it?
Hope you guys like at least some of my stuff.
Now you see I was a big fan of the flexibility that was provided in WotLK with death knights, I feel like most classes should have then after been built somewhat around their model
First off we need some changes to address their issues and carve out more of a niche and address their issues
I’d propose for the time being to make mongoose bite base line and whack another talent in its place for the time being, as well as rebalancing tip of the spear
I’d add a passive to serpent sting to make pets auto attacks return a small amount of focus to make sure we are keeping SS up most the time and don’t drop it when we are at high stacks of goose bite and to steady out focus regen
I’d also make butchery base line with 2 charges, and the current talent boost it up to 3 charges to carve out a high AoE niche to compensate for the fact we are melee
For the long term changes I’d be wanting to rework the 45 talent tree
I would scrap all 3 talents and replace them with a talent for duel wield options; 2 handed options and a ranged option
The duel wield would focus on pet damage and cleave, 2 handed would focus on single target burst and ranged would be focused on dots by returning black arrow as the focus dump and increasing our ranged damage
I believe this could be done and balanced out pretty well
The ranged option of course would gain less AoE damage but would have decent multi dot
It could be done
Tangent
While I share the sentiment, I don’t think the two eras can be in any way reconciled. We decided, after the Cata experiment, to pigeonhole specs that previously relied on reasonable hybridity for much of their themes (DK being the obvious example, but Hunters and Rogues, and to a lesser extent Warlocks, Shamans, Warriors, Mages, and the like were notably affected as well) into role-specific foci of their respective themes. Frost was as much about sturdiness as meaty crits and AoEs. Unholy was as much about anti-magic support and shiggles as damage over time and pet usage. Blood was as much about APM via 1-rune attacks and Death Runes as it was self-healing. Just as Survival and Subtlety were each as much about complimentary functionality as something entirely of their own. Many specs were based around something themes that just cannot flesh themselves out nearly so well since switching from talent trees to core specialization skills/passives and the talent grid (rather than, say, a circular talent “glaive” that based unlocks only on adjacency instead of spec-wide/-specific investment).
That sounds like a lot of talent swapping, and therein forced playstyle changes, based on no more than what weapons you’ve picked up lately.
Given how unpopular having multiple playstyles in a single spec seems as is (there was notable backlash against bringing back 2H Frost or SMF Fury, even, despite the hordes begging for the option and SMF Fury being either an aesthetic or a Prot-main-Fury-alt buff), having a weapon-based one seems unlikely to rate highly… It’s also really, really late in the spec, to the point that it’d seem to contradict themes. Wouldn’t such be better off a baseline affordance, if anything?
Didn’t everyone go god damn wild when frost came back they just wanted to make sure blizzard made it a viable option?
Not everyone. As with SMF, some veterans managed to discover new levels of condescension previously unknown to any but the Hunter forums in order to belittle those who wanted back 2H Frost (or even just those who’d rather not run BoS, but for only mostly overlapping reasons). Sadly, nothing’s ever a straight win, it would seem.