Survival Hunter

[Boomsky-moonrunner (Boomsky)]

They definitely were, and many times were played as such.

[citation needed]

[Mcpurple-muradin]

I’ll definitely have to agree here that survival wasn’t a dedicated hunter melee tree, but it made it so you could do range/melee equally average. Raptor strike actually could hit very hard where it was in line with an arms warrior special attack.

You couldn’t sit there realistically and ditch range completely in survival and think you weren’t missing anything, but it could easily give people a run for their money, so to speak. And casters? Hunters could eat through them in melee.

[Boomsky-moonrunner (Boomsky)]

My thoughts exactly. The Survival tree allowed you to, well, survive in melee range much better. You have improved wing clip, entrapment, raptor strike critting more often, Deterrence, Counterattack, more stamina and other things. All of these tools made you much better in melee and allowed you to get people out of your melee range, either through multiple snare options or by scaring casters off with a huge raptor strike crit.

Survival boosts your melee capabilities and makes your melee range less of a weakness. It isn’t a melee tree, it’s the Survival tree.

[Amangina-hyjal]

, unquestionably

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[Darjuul-wyrmrest-accord]

Thematically, there’s no point in Survival in the 1.12.1 patch. Survival in 1.12.1 plays pexactly like Marksmanship

So does BM? You know, the Hunter specs make the Hunter class play like a Hunter.

The original theme of Survival as Melee Hunters was strong; of this there is no doubt.

Yes there is. Survival spec wasn’t a strong, or even mediocre, melee spec. You seem to be under the impression that Classic specs were treated like Retail specs when they are not. Each spec isn’t it’s own “class”, it’s just a focus. The core the class is the same over all 3 specs.

It doesn’t really matter what you or I think in the end… melee hunters existed and were a thing in Vanilla whether you like it or not… that is a fact.

No, it’s not. Well, I guess they could have been around but no one took any of them seriously because it was a joke idea. I actually used to melee on a hunter for S&G’s and… it was garbage. It was like people doing a DW MS warrior; yeah you COULD do it, but it sure wasn’t a good idea.

Survival boosts your melee capabilities and makes your melee range less of a weakness. It isn’t a melee tree, it’s the Survival tree.

It’s exactly this. It’s a tree that shores up a weakness, it doesn’t flip the class over and neuter ranged option to bring melee damage to the fore. The class is still a ranged combat class, no matter where, or even if, you use your talent points.

[Valhalian-trollbane (Valhalian)]

Survival isnt about being melee dps. Infact savage strike is the only thing actually targeted at melee dps. Everything else is either overall dps or defensive talents. Counterstrike is used for the root and so is improved wing clip. Infact id imagine in its current form savage strikes is the stand out.

[Jokel-lightninghoof]

Almost every melee talent is some variation of “Get me the hell out of here!” rather than a DPS increase.

Maybe that’s why it was called “survival” and not “kill them faster”.

At least they didn’t name it “melee”!

[Valhalian-trollbane (Valhalian)]

Only time i even remember melee hunters was nightfall hunters.

[Tagatojin-wyrmrest-accord]

[Sabetha-turalyon (Sabetha)]

While the original Survival tree had some more melee stuff in it than the post-revamp one, I’d argue Survival was more of a tree about control and defense than anything else.

Even pre-revamp it has things like improved traps, rooting on all traps, roots on Wing Clip, increased dodge and parry, Deterrence, and Counter-Attack.

The revamp focused the tree more into that area than it did melee DPS, which was always considered a weak aspect of the Hunter class to begin with.

[Ironsides-stormreaver (Ironsides)]

Alright so I leveled a melee hunter in vanilla (on nostalrious) and honestly had a blast. Sure they weren’t good for raids besides as a nightfall bot, but they were exceptional anti melee (even better than a hunter normally is imo). The way the class played is something you just don’t see in mmo’s. You had raptor strike as steady form of dps sure, but the fun part about them was their riposte abilities (mongoose bite and counterattack). With their mail armor, base evasion, and deterrence, they were more of a sustain damage class that made combat feel more realistic (people don’t just baseball swing at each other in rl).

Now that we got why I loved survival in vanilla lets get down to it; for some reason this tree that is lit designed for the melee abilities was changed around 1.7 to take out their bleed at 31 points and make it some $#!% incap (which hunters already get tranq shot). Now yes I understand the bleed was a $#!%ier version of rend, and if it this wasn’t turning out to be a faithful recreation of vaniller I would advocate for buffing the bleed but I digress. However lacerate (the bleed) actually belongs with the rest of the melee abilities in the tree, while wyvern sting ($#!%y incap) sticks out like a sore thumb. I’m hoping to convince some of the people on this forum that survival deserves to be as it was in vanilla with some self respect and not just some 30 point dip for agility at end game

exceptional means “good”. every other spec will deal with melees better than survival.

survival was never meant as a melee tree, it was meant as a CC focused/escape tree.

tranq shot doesn’t do anything in pvp, and wyvern sting is a 12 second incap which lets you run from anyone on their way to gank you. if the requirement for the target to be OOC wasn’t there, it’d actually be a decent pvp talent instead of an okay one.

learn your class

[Moonblade-hyjal (Moonblade)]

for some reason this tree that is lit designed for the melee abilities was changed around 1.7 to take out their bleed at 31 points

Because it was worse, at 60, than whatever rank of Rend was in the early 40’s. It was complete garbage.

make it some $#!% incap (which hunters already get tranq shot).

Tranq shot doesn’t work in PvP, and isn’t an incap/sleep in PvE anyways. Do you even know what the abilities you’re talking about do?

told you that its retailers coming to the classic forum and expressing their modern expectations on it.

Survival was never a melee tree. Playing back at Vanilla release it wasn’t a melee tree, after 1.7 it wasn’t a melee tree, not until Legion was it an actual melee tree.

Survival, was a melee spec though…

No, it really wasn’t. It buffed melee but that’s different from being a melee tree, especially since the half of the buffs were defensive.

not until Legion was it an actual melee tree.

No, it really wasn’t.

well…im glad that 6+ other people got what i was getting at. lol just went over your head.

not a melee spec in vanilla> a melee spec in retail> comes to vanilla forums and asks/demands for a melee spec

told you that its retailers coming to the classic forum and expressing their modern expectations on it.

[Moonblade-hyjal (Moonblade)]

Survival, was a melee spec though…

Right, and Enhancement was a Tank spec because of shield specialization and anticipation…

Or, combat was a ranged spec because of thrown weapon specialization…

Just because there were a few talents that gave you more options in melee doesn’t mean hunters were ever meant to sit in melee range. That is, until Blizzard gave survival spec hunters no other option in retail.

You never had a shaman tank in vanilla?

I did all the way through Brd

How you word it dude is the survival tree had a melee spec.

i know your trolling but for the people who might NOT know any better- i want to clear something up here;

ranged classes had only a few melee abilities- ONLY in case of close ranged combat. this was not their ‘spec’ but off abilities that could be used in a ‘needed’ basis. its like comparing a lock’s ability to auto attack with a staff, to their actual class abilities and claiming they are the same thing. they arent.

please dont ever come near classic.

[Darjuul-wyrmrest-accord]

well…im glad that 6+ other people got what i was getting at. lol just went over your head.

So I agreed with you and you can’t figure that out? And it went over my head, sure.

[Moonblade-hyjal (Moonblade)]

well…im glad that 6+ other people got what i was getting at. lol just went over your head.

So I agreed with you and you can’t figure that out? And it went over my head, sure.

uh—no you didnt.

Survival was never a melee tree

you corrected something i never even said lol.

[Narya-kirin-tor (Narya)]

Patch 1.12 Survival looks very cool. Saying it “has no point” is like saying there’s no point to there being more than one rogue spec, since all three are dual-wielding melee damage.

Tranquilizing Shot dispels some raid bosses’ enrage; that’s what it does, and you also need a drop from Molten Core to even learn it. If you’re thinking in Modern enough terms to be under the impression it does all the stuff they loaded onto it sometime in the WotLK/Cataclysm time-frame, you’re not nearly clear enough on what was and wasn’t in Classic to be talking rather than listening.

[Darjuul-wyrmrest-accord]

Whatever helps you sleep at night, sunshine.

[Moonblade-hyjal (Moonblade)]

Whatever helps you sleep at night, sunshine.

k, cupcake.

[Farthir-durotan]

So does BM? You know, the Hunter specs make the Hunter class play like a Hunter.

Yeah, but the difference is, old Survival didn’t play like the new Survival, so im not sure what your point is.

Yes there is. Survival spec wasn’t a strong, or even mediocre, melee spec. You seem to be under the impression that Classic specs were treated like Retail specs when they are not. Each spec isn’t it’s own “class”, it’s just a focus. The core the class is the same over all 3 specs.

The strength of the spec is completely irrelevant when discussing fantasy. You could give 1.12.1 Survival Hunters a talent that gives them +1000 agility which would make them do more DPS than Marks, but it wouldn’t still make their theme stronger than Marks. In fact, quite the opposite.

No, it’s not. Well, I guess they could have been around but no one took any of them seriously because it was a joke idea. I actually used to melee on a hunter for S&G’s and… it was garbage. It was like people doing a DW MS warrior; yeah you COULD do it, but it sure wasn’t a good idea.

He is actually completely right. Melee Hunters existed at one point in Vanilla. They may not have been the most optimal spec, but they definitely existed. To say that you didn’t know they existed, proves you are simply ignorant about how melee hunters were played in Vanilla.

But even if no one played it, it wouldn’t change the fact that the tree is designed as melee and filled with melee talents.

And even you admit it was possible in your last paragraph, so your entire point is moot.

Survival boosts your melee capabilities and makes your melee range less of a weakness. It isn’t a melee tree, it’s the Survival tree.

It’s exactly this. It’s a tree that shores up a weakness, it doesn’t flip the class over and neuter ranged option to bring melee damage to the fore. The class is still a ranged combat class, no matter where, or even if, you use your talent points.

That’s absolutely not true, by the way. Survival tree was unquestionably a melee tree, and was being played as such.

Your illogical idea of a hybrid “range/melee spec” won’t work and wasn’t the original design of the tree. We can keep on arguing about semantics on these forums all day, but a tree that has only melee talents is unquestionably and irrefutably a melee tree.

You don’t just take stuff like 5% melee crit and hit and then except to go ranged. If you wanted to play ranged Hunter, you’d go to the Marksmanship tree. No one spends 31 talents on strictly melee talents and except to do “sort of okay” in melee.

[Ironsides-stormreaver (Ironsides)]

this is some high tier poorly made socks posting.