No I don’t think so. 90% of abilities are ranged and the big burst damage abilities are melee and the auto attacks that makeup 10-15% of our DPS are melee wouldn’t you say it forces it more now than if all the abilities could be done at Range of 40yds but then wouldn’t you say that makes the melee weapon redundant unless we are throwing it or using magic thru it like how Aspect of the Eagle currently works. So is it forcing when the buffs were just an example to give reason to go into melee? It could be anything.
((revision of my idea edited 5/13/22))
Keep the melee weapon just add in a throwing axe auto-attack when attacking at Range within 40yds that toggles between melee and range when entering and leaving melee range.
Make Aspect of the Eagle a passive so we can launch slashes of green energy at our opponents with our Mongoose bites or Raptor Strikes.
Aspect of the Beast passive you gain a primal beast’s wrath and Raptors Strike and Mongoose Bite are discounted at Melee Range by 5 or 10 focus. For more burst damage.
So the survival hunter will have a choice between kiting or going into melee to gain the benefits of the leech and won’t be completely squishy. I could see this more useful for getting up close to other ranged classes even though the dodge and parry won’t do anything to them just to gain the leech and if other melee force you into close combat you won’t be completely squishy until you can get away and start kiting them.
I mean, if the goal isn’t to actually cater to those who prefer what you got from RSV, and it’s also not necessarily in line with those who prefer the current iteration…why?
I prefer the current iteration but I wouldn’t mind if this version became a spear or axe throwing version of itself or a spell-slinging version of itself with Aspect of the Eagle or both. I mean it just sounds fun to me I guess so ill just suggest things that sound fun.
I mean people who play the current version weapon swap in large battlegrounds and kite when hp low swap to arcane shot when their Aspect of Eagle and bombs and chakrams and kill commands are on cooldown and swap to a gun or bow for some elite mobs that are hard to solo in PvE content till you get the insane good gear I have done it instead of switching specs ill just use a different rotation using weapon swapping and arcane shot and steady shot when kill command is on cooldown.
As for the old RSV, I don’t remember it well it was 6 years ago and a lot has happened in my life so who knows but I can’t be on board with old RSV if I don’t remember it. I think I oddly remember hunter back in WotLK cause I played hunter more back then I had explosive shot and power shot and i tossed exsplosive trap at peoples feet. Maybe if i played the class more then few months before change to melee id remeber it but i dont. And its not like anyone going explain what RSV used to be like.
Many would say that MoP held the best iteration of RSV. WoD came with their newfound love for pruning so, arguably, while a few things were improved upon, much of what they did for that expansion wasn’t exactly to improve RSV in general. If anything, asking some players, what they did to RSV in WoD was mostly to prepare it for the Legion rework. A sentiment I would agree with.
PS. Make sure to check under Specialization, that it’s set to Spec, not Class, or you’ll show all abilities and effects instead. Also note that the talent section itself is more or less irrelevant since those were designed to be class-wide options, and not exclusive to RSV.
That core fantasy, is why I decided to look into a modern concept for the spec, what you can find in the link below. Ofc that concept includes spec specific talents and additional passives, as that is what’s required for the current game(with more changes yet to come for DF).
I was reading thru and to me, RSV looks like current marksmen but with a pet. Just add in Lock and Loaded but have serpent sting proc it instead of adding in black arrow and bring back serpent spread to effect multishot again. And making Lonewolf a stance that just makes up for not wanting to manage a pet for DPS instead of it just being better. But then again I played Druid during MoP so i never played that itteration just WotLK and the little i remember before the switch to melee.
Although i do like survival in its current state comparatively to Legion & BFA. I did like ranged Survival.
Survival for me was the idea of being a self reliant ranged dps. It was defined by iconic abilities like wyvern sting, improved traps, being able to melee when deadzone was a thing and also using wingclip on melee that came too close. And then you had your spec defining attack explosive shot, coupled with expose weakness.
What would be cool is either a 4th spec or incorporate it as an alternative game play to Marks, perhaps in the form of a stance? MM for pure dps & survival for utility/fun ?
Not sure how you got to that conclusion. But well, it’s your opinion. It’s not really a solid basis for any argument of why it was justified to remove RSV, or why it shouldn’t be brought back though. Why? Well, it’s based on a reductionist logic/view of what it means to fight with ranged weapons, and what the respective themes actually portray, and amount(ed) to.
You’re not alone in it, the devs said something similar in order to justify what was done.
There are several big flaws with that logic, one of which is that it directly counters what specs were actually designed to be in the first place. Secondly, for some weird reason, the devs sought to apply this type of logic ONLY to the case of RSV. If they had set to make it an actual core part of their new philosophies, as a blanket, then in short, we would no longer have 3 warlock specs focused on casting spells and relying on demons, no longer have 3 mage specs casting spells with different colors, no longer 3 Rogue specs, all wielding 2x 1handed weapons with combo points and stealth, no longer would we have both arms and fury for warriors.
Basically, RSV was built on a core that promoted DoT-gameplay. MM was the opposite, where you instead focused on heavy burst periods of upfront damage. There’s no way to objectively argue that they actually were too similar in their design/theme/gameplay.
I’m not against that but I like the RP of them being a hunter class that can dive into melee leap out range and kite an enemy before going in for killing blow when burst if it makes sense. I think Aspect of the eagle makes hunter attacks look so cool but sad it only lasts 15 sec with a long cooldown. but if they do that then why ever go melee? besides auto attacks, if they gave us throwing spears then why even less and maybe it can be when in melee range that some abilities become single target damage that can just burst down hp and in long-range that abilitity procs aoe instead or maybe hunter does 5% more damage as long as they stay in melee or something but you can take little to no damage if your kiting melee mob or player well enough that the 5% damage isnt an option till you go for the kill.
@Ghorak
I don’t care about justifications if it is fun ill play if it can be more fun if they change it I’m willing to try it. If I’m spouting things people said before being that’s a coincidence. It’s fun so I want them to keep the theme but keep tweaking it till a lot of people like it. On paper DoT-gameplay and heavy burst periods of damage give slight playstyle changes on rotation but once get used to both they feel the same to me. -shrugs-
You’ve engaged in discussions in various topics about why it was, or wasn’t justified to rework SV. And also discussions about why it should, or shouldn’t return. In these discussions, you’ve mentioned that the specs didn’t seem all that different to you. If your intent wasn’t to use your opinion to support the logic of the bottom line, then why would you bring it up at all?
Anyway, I wasn’t saying that you can’t have an opinion of your own, in terms of what you think the specs were like. I only pointed out that your opinion is based on a reductionist logic which isn’t supporting of an objective argument, pertaining to this discussion. Again, you’re still free to have said opinion.
I guess, the only thing I’m against is reverting SV I’m not against it becoming fully ranged but I’m wanting to keep the melee weapon and evolve it on spells like Aspect of the Eagle and maybe use that Lil pocket crossbow or add in throwing weapons for auto-attacks. And maybe throwing in a new aspect to make raptor strike ether proc free in melee or become cheaper by 5-10 focus that way you pop off more in a melee but could still kite without losing DPS severely because Raptor strike and mongoose bite do way more damage then kill command and serpent stinging from a distance.
I’m also not against it becoming fully melee class but my mind hasn’t worked that out yet on how that work.
Im also not against them bringing back the old RSV rotation and spells finding its way into any of the other 2 specs or as a 4th spec.
But I see survival as a weapon hurling class now that can do some melee and I hope they keep working on it more to make it better even if they desided we where going toss around the melee weapon like thor and bring back a Dots rotation with wilfire bombs and bleed from pet and maybe added in spells that exspand on that.
I’m not unreasonable, but I do think there needs to be an actual conversation with Hunter in General and I think the current survival hunter in its current form seems to highlight the weakness of the class as a whole in its current state. Do you think our current aspect abilities and exhilaration are in a good spot or lacking while playing BM or MM?
RSV was the most enjoyable spec in the game from WotLK to MoP, for me. I miss it dearly and have not enjoyed raiding as much ever sense. BM is boring and always has been and MM, for me, has never been fun to play except maybe from 7.0-7.1. Giving an option in the new skill tree upcoming in Dragonflight to be either RSV or MSV would be amazing. If you enjoy MSV rock on, but let us choose. Let RSV use a spear, javelin or throwing axe if you want to keep that fantasy.
pretty much 90% ranged with like 4 skills for melee but Id want bring that up too 100% and just have us using Aspect of eagle all the time or throwing the melee weapon around like your Thor or weapon is a magic boomerang. lol XD
For MM, I’d say Exhilaration is wanting. If it would heal me like it heals my pet, I’d be much happier.
About the Class: Class strengths? Borrowed powers. Weaknesses? Deliberate neglect of MM for the last 2 expacs, periodic poison for BM, overall weak Class Identity.
Has it changed much from legion besides some damage tweaks cause I know Survival hasn’t changed much. Excluding borrowed power. I’m kinda hoping they let the players try the new spec trees 2-3 months before the launch and they faze out the borrowed power in that patch making it go, poof.
