Mained Survival Hunter in WoD, quit playing it when they removed ranged survival
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Survival should be the “magic archer” or dark ranger…
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God I thought we have moved beyond this silly claim of yours, I have never asked for more dps. just stop whining in my post if you just plan on drowning me with your “Y U ONLY WANT MOAR DPS WAH” whining cuz is not working.
I have never stated either that Survival is doing badly numerically or that our dps is bad, I have instead stated that we are the ONLY SPEC WITH NO CHANGES AT ALL SO FAR IN ALPHA AND BETA that is my bloody issue.
Numbers can be tuned, I want baseline two kill commands so that when we get reset procs back to back it feels better than seeing one get wasted
Okay, maybe that could work.
I stated this was only a very personal dream, I’m 100% okay with this change never happening. Thank you for ignoring my disclaimer.
Again, I am not advocating for any number changes. Blizzard can tune things to avoid making Survival overpowered. Get it thru your thick bloody head once and for all.
Kill Command having two stacks baselines counteracts the issue of us getting double procs and one going to waste. Just like BM has two Barded Shotbaseline to avoid this same issue
Serpent Sting scaling like the rest of the dots making scaling more intuitive and flow naturally it does not mean more dps it means Serpent Sting remains relevant in our rotation
Charkrams currently competes with two very powerful talents which makes it a dead Talent that will never be used, So I recommend it being looked at not for its damage to be increased
the lvl60 row is dominated by Bloodseeker with the other two talents never being viable I am not asking for literal buffs for either thought, I am asking for the row to be redesign, Blizzard can do whatever they want with it.
Again so you get it into that head of yours, I am NOT asking for DPS increases, I am asking for mechanical updates, If these changes were to add more DPS then I am FINE WITH BLIZZARD NERFING US NUMERICALLY TO KEEP US IN LINE
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But that is literally why its dead. It’s not functionally a bad talent. It’s just less dps.
Barbed isn’t like KC. It is a generator, but they also have to stack frenzy. And it’s reset chance is much higher.
But you are asking for weird changes. Like asking for carve to have no cd, which would mean it would have to have a focus increase or lose its bomb cd interaction. Or possibly both.
Why would anyone ask for that?
I like that there is a melee option on hunter, it makes sense. Having all 3 specs as ranged was kindve weird. I always found ranged survival didn’t really make sense enough to warrant it as a spec, but having it as a melee definitely makes it worth while to have in the game. I think that the spec is kind’ve clunky and has always felt unfinished though, it could use a bit of polish and cleaning up. Im not a game designer so I honestly can’t say what they should do to change it…but my feedback as far as my own experience with the spec is that it has felt like something is off while Im playing it.
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Yes, it’s issue is that is low dps, but if you also look at the other two talents in the row, both affect our spec quite largely, changing the way we function in one way or another. Chakram is just another button we press every 20 secs for some cleave damage. I do not beleive it deserves to be in the 50 row so I beleive another talent should take its place.
But KC IS a generator for Survival? Frenzy and the reset change aren’t the issue, the issue is when we double proc. which does happen often. Is not okay to have a quality of life change (2 KCs stacks) as a talent.
We currently have the situation that we do not have any spamable aoe ability, So we are forced to use our regular 'ol single target rotation in aoe situations. By making Carve spamable we get a more satisfying aoe rotation that is not strickly the same as our single target.
As I stated before
Disclaimer: Again because I don’t trust you. I am not advocating for any DPS increase for Survival.
I totally agree with you, Survival could use some polish and clean up, The spec is not terrible, is not even bad. But it could feel a lot better than it currently does.
That’s why I want Blizzard to actually do some updates to our spec
Because we are literally the only spec in the game which has yet to recieve a single mechanical change since the start of alpha and beta
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I like the concept of it being a mix of bombarder and kida of trickster.
With their lob jabs and explosives.
But it needs another melee ability, and some axe trowing like the one on legion.
Also, add a flashbang bomb into there as well
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Uh… ok, what about mage then? Three ranged DPS specs. Frost, Arcane and Fire. How about Rogue? Three melee DPS. (Ok, Pirate… I mean Outlaw, has pistols. I dropped Rogue when they changed Outlaw, so maybe it’s some kind of ranged/melee hybrid?)
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Most people in time learn that being unique does not automatically mean being good and that you can make something a lot worse if you chase uniqueness over everything else.
Believe it or not, you can have 3 ranged specs that feel different to play. No one is going around saying all the Mage specs play the same to one another.
Ranged combat was still the central part of the class.
Go read the material from the launch of the game:
https://i.imgur.com/kBVr5Uc.png
Blizzard very much thought of Hunters as a ranged class right from the beginning.
I know from other discussions you’ve seen this before and I have no doubt you’ll just once again quietly drop out of the thread and never reply, only to start up again in another thread.
No, phasing out the melee aspects like they ended up doing was the right idea. Survival was at its best as a purely ranged spec.
What about running into melee and swinging a 2-handed weapon around fits the Goblin engineering theme? Ranged Survival fit this much better. You clearly like the Wildfire Bomb aspect of the spec, yet that aspect hardly fits being melee at all. They could just make ranged Survival with Wildfire Bomb.
To be honest the fantasy and core idea are pretty flawed too.
At it’s core, they took the spec that was always meant to be the resourceful opportunist and made it stick to melee range i.e. totally missing the point of the spec.
As for the spec’s fantasy: it’s a mix of incompatible elements including melee skirmisher attacks more fitting of a Warrior (Raptor Strike, Cleave - I mean, Carve), exotic munitions more fitting of the old ranged Survival (Wildfire Bomb, Serpent Sting), and pet-based attacks more fitting on BM (Kill Command, Coordinated Assault). There’s no underlying theme here. Why is a spec that’s supposedly meant to be a companion of the pet also throwing grenades at point-blank range?
Call me crazy, but I would rather we try to make Survival feel like a Hunter and not a Warrior.
This is very ironic given the perpetually low population of Survival Hunters.
That tends to happen when Blizzard removes specs people enjoy.
That’s not what SV is back to. SV used to be able to deal its full damage potential at ranged. It can no longer do that.
I know the point you’re trying to make and I agree with it: I find it hilarious how after all is touting of how melee Hunters are so great the melee spec has hardly any melee left in it. But it’s important to note current Survival still has to be in melee to deal its full damage potential which is unlike every previous iteration of every Hunter spec.
Hunter specs should not be sacrificed to appeal to people who don’t like Hunters. You should have gone with one of the wealth of melee options in the game already.
At most they should have made a melee option within BM i.e. a talent that replaces ranged abilities like Cobra Shot with melee ones like Raptor Strike. That way the melee roleplayers like you can be satisfied and the real Hunters don’t lose an entire spec.
Comparing Nathanos to Rexxar is bizare, by the way. Nathanos is very much a ranged weapon user and nothing like Rexxar.
Most likely: you had developers who were very unenthusiastic about Hunters to the point where they couldn’t recognise any nuance beyond “they all use a ranged weapon”. Combine this with a misled and reckless class design philosophy of “every spec needs to be as distinct as a different class” and more enthusiasm for designing melee specs and you get a Hunter spec turned melee.
What a weird thing to get attached to. ES weaving was a lazy and uninteresting mechanical “trick”. It was a terrible way to add a skill cap to a spec because it was unintuitive. It’s not obvious to a new player that using Explosive Shot as soon as its available can be a bad thing due to DoT clipping and it really interfered with the flow of the spec. You might have a valid complaint in saying that ranged SV was too easy but thinking that the ES clipping was some great mechanic that made the spec so much better is wild.
“Besides 3-4 core DPS abilities”?? That would be almost the entire core gameplay, so yeah that would actually be pretty substantially different to MM. What kind of useless argument is “if you ignore everything that’s different, they’re the same spec!!”?
This is true, but at least in those classes they were established as melee specs from the very beginning and have a sizeable melee-preferring following built up over years. With SV they shoehorned a melee spec into a class that was previously entirely ranged, so not only are they having to deal with the bitterness of the people that liked the old Survival but they are also trying to sell a melee spec to a class full of people who play it specifically for ranged gameplay.
Why? Hunters were defined around the ranged weapon from the very beginning. It makes sense to have a class focus on that and for that class to have specs that focus on different aspects of ranged weapon gameplay.
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Melee Survival just feels like a strange, bargain bin version of Outlaw Rogue to me. They’re sort of lacking their own identity.
Shame, too - you could totally tap into the Aragorn / lone ranger aesthetic and go to town with that.
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I understand your grievance, I honestly do. I started playing in WoD launch and right away got very attached to Survival, I mained the spec throughout the whole expansion and I wept when the changes were announced.
At first, I decided to stick with Survival entirely out of stubbornness. But I honestly ended up liking our new Melee Survival.
I do have never considered Ranged Survival and Melee Survival to be the same spec, they simply share their names just like Paladin Protection and Warrior Protection do.
My biggest dream is for Ranged Survival to one day come back as a fourth spec, but I see the chances of this happening anytime soon as very small to none at all.
So rather than reminicense about the good ol’ days I will instead advocate for Melee Survival to at least get the sorely needed updates it needs.
If we cannot have Ranged Survival, lets at least fight and bring our voices up so that Blizzard gives us a GREAT Melee Survival!
So yeah. I know how much that ol’ wound still hurts. But please let’s not derail the post.
This post is about reminding blizzard that Survival is currently the ONLY spec that has yet to recieve even ONE mechanical update since the start of alpha and beta!
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Well all be darn, there he is. I was wondering when you would reply to this thread 
Had me worried there for a good minute because you know a Survival Hunter topic isn’t a thread without the Legendary Bepples the Great input. 
SV doesn’t really deserve any attention in beta. It’s a failed experiment that has been the least popular spec in the game for 2 xpacs in a row now. Outside of returning it to the actually fun and useful ranged version I don’t care what happens to it.
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This is VERY reminiscent of the Old Shadow vs Legion/BFA Voidform discussions. We see how that went. They MAY be considering it for Survival in the future.
When you make a bold move like that to change a spec from range to melee, you’d expect the spec to allow a little “time in the sun”. It seems you want to take responsibility for your creation to make sure it succeeds and is competitive.
Its very puzzling as to why so little attention is given to it. So its not surprising to start questioning Blizz as to what was the point then to change to melee?
I hate these statements… they’re so factually incorrect. You have made a post about a spec that you want to change and have a lot of people telling you it’s fine the way it is. Saying “they don’t care about our feedback” is obviously not the case. I’m not saying Blizz is perfect, but if you have people actively disagreeing with you, then your feedback is probably in the minority or close.
Instead of being both entitled and salty about it, why don’t suggest changes to see what people actually think about the spec. Crying about it on the forums doesn’t give anyone a direction or incentivize actual change.
If you spend five minutes reading instead of going directly to raging you would understand that my real issue is how little development time Blizzards is giving to Survival.
Survival is the only spec in the game that has not recieved a SINGLE mechanical change throughout alpha or beta <— This is my issue.
I am neither in team “ranged” or team “Melee” Because I consider myself part of both. I loved and mained Ranged in WoD, and I ended up also liking Melee Survival in legion. Do you people honestly beleive it is imposible to have liked both versions of Survival?
I do not care either if Blizzard decides to return us to Ranged or stick to melee, what i care is that they at least give us the updates we deserve!
I feel I have spend the entirety of this post trying to defend myself from both the Melee lovers and the Ranged Lovers. if one group is not trash-talking me then the other is.
ALL I WANT ARE UPDATES FOR MY SPEC! you guys can keep your gang war out of my post.
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Make Surv an official Tank Spec. Seems like a no brainer. Hunter fights along side pet. Together they use natural survival and through their bond they can tank it up with the best of em.
Hunters get a melee spec and tanks become more plentiful than ever.
I already tank the floor good enough with my face.
On a serious response: I do not see Survival ever changing from a dps to a tank.
I am also really unsure of how I would feel about it if by some insane hiccup of the matrix it ended up happening.
Not saying your idea is bad, I just don’t honestly know how I would feel about it as a current Survival main that has never tanked.
Never seen such in fighting for a class before. Melee survival really hit a nerve with a lot of hunters and it is understandable. However I agree with the op melee survival needs help and instead of trashing it and wanting to bring ranges back they could just add ranged survival back as a fourth spec. But don’t trash the one you don’t like. I like melee survival and And I want all hunter specs to be improved , SV included the clunky ness is weird
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