I think you’ve confused Survival for Beast Master lol. That’s a perfect description of everything BM is supposed to be. Beast Master should have a melee option so it can play like that, but Survival is all about gorilla warfare, poisons, traps, and versatility. Always has been since day one. Think Rambo when you think SV hunter, and think Rexxar when talking about melee BM.
I have to agree, they’re pretty out of touch and lazy about it all, I mean Void Elves over High Elves… lol, they really gotta be out of touch to make these lazy knockoffs instead a race that’s so demanded by fans that they showed up on the Q&A for BFA. But here’s to hoping!
If anything they should be reading the forums because they’re a little lost SV hunter and the number of people playing them is at an all time low
The thing is if you give hunters a 4th spec, what is to stop mages or rogues getting a 4th spec? Not that there cannot be a 4th spec for mages or rogues, rather I just don’t see blizz putting in the work to make a 4th spec.
For myself I find MSV enjoyable and I hope it does not go back to RSV. That being said if blizz was willing to put in the work to bring back RSV as a 4th spec and took the time to balance all 4 specs of hunters, then I would have no problem with RSV coming back.
I totally agree. Either a 4th spec or a BM variation. I can totally see the appeal of this spec, especially for a Dark Iron smashing people with his trusty pet. Imagine if you had two core hounds to go with that style.
Sound fair to me. 4th specs could be the way to go, even being branded “Legacy Specs” or perhaps a person even choosing legacy talent trees which goes back to the good old days when we could mix and match, Classic style.
Other classes didn’t get a spec entirely deleted though. If they could separate feral and guardian, they can definitely separate MSV and RSV. That’d honestly be the only fair thing at this point. It was Blizzards illogical design decision that caused this split in the community. Ever since Ion took over, it’s been one bad design decision after another. I commend him for trying to fix the relationship between the dev team and the WoW community though. Although I am kind of miffed at when he said they’re more open to feedback, yet there are still a bunch of specs that are still in shambles. They started too late on the class changes after saying they wouldn’t do any. If they concentrated more on classes from the start, like during pre-alpha, we probably wouldn’t be in the mess we’re in right now.
I just think they need to go full in on the Melee and give it a more exciting rotation with like, uh, maybe 1-2 more abilities.
Survival is a ton of fun in PvP but in PvE it feels kind of goofy sometimes. And then you’re really just bashing Mongoose Bite because that’s the only talent in that row worth getting.
Agreed, the spec has been dumbed down to a 2-button masher spec for the most part. I think a separate Beast Master spec would replace this as a pure melee spec, while Survival should go back to its roots.
For much, the original tree held horribly designed talents(in the sense that they were nowhere near where they should’ve been). With the rework for…1.7, if I recall correctly, they basically merged several talents together and added new ones(etc.), allowing SV to be more in line with the intended theme in general(more useful on a wider scale).
It took SV closer to the definition of the whole “Survivability”-feature of the class.
I don’t want to go to deep into this but, in short, many seem to think that because SV is a melee spec today with a dedication towards melee combat, and because SV when it was originally put in as a talent category, it held talents partially focused on melee, that “SV is now back to it’s roots”.
The problem is that SV in it’s original form, did not provide us with a defined and dedicated playstyle like what we see today. None of the talent categories did. They were themed after what the devs decided to be our main class features.
For Hunters, that was:
Beast Mastery(pets),
Marksmanship(ranged weapon),
and Survival(survivability by improving our defensives, our utility, incl traps and situational melee elements).
The core focus back then wasnt: Pets, Ranged and/or Melee.
Anyway…
Going forward, this would IMO be by far the best solution. Why insist on restricting us in terms of thematic and defining choices when there actually is a way to avoid such?
Not saying that it should stop them.
Additional specs should be added where somethings missing from the class in question. As long as the intended new spec meets all the necessary criteria.
Also, think of it like this, it’s not an “all-or-nothing”-kind of deal. If it was, then Druids would not have a 4th spec either. Because if it’s “all-or-nothing” then the reason for that 4th spec does not matter. And since Druids have one but the rest don’t currently, then this is not the case.
If the devs want, they can just add this 4th spec to the class with the motivation of(something akin to):
With Legion, the Hunter class lost a unique and thematically fitting playstyle. One that the community have since been requesting for it to return.
In the spirit of returning past elements and features to classes that were previously removed, we’ve now decided to give hunters another specialization, designed with that past theme in mind.
Meanwhile we continue to monitor feedback for other classes as well. Going forward, we continue to look at what players feel is missing for them and what we can then do to make the experience better for everyone. We want people to feel like they have a choice to play the game according to their preferences, and returning what was once the Survival-specialization to the Hunter class - as a fourth option, is another step in that direction.
And yeah…
Something like that.
I’ve advocated for it for quite a while now. And will continue to do so as, IMO, it’s better to provide more options rather than fewer ones.
Not sure why so many always compare melee survival with vanilla out of all the expansions of wow. Is it because there was like 2 melee options in survivals tree back then??
Melee hunter was a meme back then and never viable. The only time melee hunter was good was vs a ranged hunter in pvp. Get in dead zone, ranged hunter is forced to melee. The Survival hunter would win due to improved raptor strike and counter attack if picked, Because you had just a littttttttle more in the melee department to beat the ranged hunter. That’s it.
Never once when playing vanilla hunter when I ran out of mana did I stop auto shooting to go and melee. The ONLY time you had to melee is when something got in your dead zone.
I think the version of Surv hunter now is pretty damn good, just some number tuning and I would leave it alone. Not against ranged survival coming back at all either. The only thing I think this version of survival needs is maybe a few talents baseline and some dmg buffs.
I don’t know why at this point with all the division that they can’t make this spec work the same from melee or range. A couple of you brought up the old feral spec which worked fine for a long time under the same umbrella.
There are only a few actual melee attacks with SV right now, why not have them work the same from range? Then the peeps who want to get up close can equip a polearm and work up close, and then the peeps who equip a crossbow can stand back.
Nothing is or ever will be perfectly balanced anyways, why not just let make both work?
The argument common argument against this is that ranged DPS with unhindered mobility is always better than melee DPS. Without some kind of additional utility to even the playing field (monk or DH’s 5% damage increase, rogue’s CC) it’s argued that there’d be no reason to play at melee (and there’s no reason to bring an MSV hunter to a group now).
Personally, I don’t see it - I don’t see what makes my BM hunter better right now than any of the melee DPS in my raid group. I see what makes him better than other ranged DPS, sure, but having spent half this expansion in melee as Outlaw and the other half at range as BM? Doesn’t feel all that different or better to me.
Replace MSV with MoP RSV. Stick existing ‘melee’ survivals whopping total of two, count them, TWO damaging melee abilities in the RSV talent tree. Mongoose bite replaces explosive shot. Carve/butchery replaces multi-shot. Stick wildfire bomb with infusion baked in into the tree somewhere. Harpoon in the movement row or a pvp talent.
So hinder movement if you play it range, give it mobility if you play it melee. If they can change up how spells work in pvp I’m sure adding and taking things away depending on if you have a bow equipped wouldn’t be asking all that much.
It beats waiting for them to reinvent the whole spec.
I made a massive post about a potential design for four spec Hunter a while back. Has every class ability, spec ability, talents, etc. and some extra stuff with pets too.
That really is what they to do. They just need to bite the bullet, swallow their pride, and give Hunters a fourth spec. One for ranged Survival. One for melee Survival. That’s the only way to make everyone happy.
I don’t think fans want so much want the exact spec from back then, but rather they’re given ideas that stem from the mark it left. Actually it’s the entire inspiration behind Blizzard making Survival melee in the first place, however I feel they went too far and forgot the essence of what Survival Hunter is.
In early Vanilla, it actually was a pretty tough spec. Talents upped the damage of all your melee attacks, made Raptor Strike cool faster, and even had Lacerate adding to the dot pool. The goal was never to stay in melee range for long, but it did put up a better fight against melee classes until you could get them off you. Not to mention beat the crap out of MM hunters.
Later expansions introduced fantastic traps and DoT ranged attacks, which would stack well with the original melee increases. Traps were really what made us unique.
The current version is more akin to a dumbed down Beast Master, and has clunky mechanics that rely way too much on gear to function. It could make an excellent BM melee option, minus the grenades. Imagine melee alongside two huge beasts. However, it’s so sluggish and incorrectly configured. Just look at the talent Viper’s Venom: WHY would it proc off of Mongoose when it should proc off of Kill Command? Personally I feel that DoTs should be our source of focus regen, similar to Assassination Rogue, not having to drop everything for Kill Command spamming. It’s just tedious and gets in the way of other moves in critical situations.
However, when I think of Survival Hunter, I think Dutch from Predator, or Rambo. Men with a balanced combination of wits, strength, ranged combat, and using the environment to outthink their opponent.
Yeah that’s not bad, because MoP and TBC’s Survival was overall the best it’s ever been. Though if they’re going to leave out Explosive Shot, then they’ll have to change up Mastery to include Wildfire bombs. Generally speaking, our mastery should increase all our damage over time effects, and our focus regen needs to be from DoTs instead of the sluggish Kill Command.
It’d also be nice to have a PvP talent for Counter Attack on a 45sec cooldown, and a Tracker’s Net that doesn’t break from damage over time. Snake Trap should apply all stings, including PvP talent stings. It’d be a whole new utility trap and save on keys.
Some folks really want to reinvent the wheel here.
RSV gets brought back entirely as a spec. Keep MSV and call it whatever you want. It would literally be that easy.
The fact all this division exists is absolutely ridiculous.
If they want to keep the 3 specs as is then they at least need to make MM or BM fun and playable. BM was only popular this expansion because they were broken as hell in pve.
It’s laughable that we still need to have these conversations when they could make all parties happy with very little work.
Well said. I completely agree. What they should do is create “Legacy Specs” and allow us to use TBC talent charts updated to modern stats.
TBC was the most popular expansion in WoW’s entire history and it completed the Classic talent charts. They were never better then this. In terms of Survival Hunter, give a few tweaks and it’s good go.
A mastery that ups dot and trap damage.
Focus regen based on dots.
Add a lacerate effect on raptor strike, so that we have some classic vanilla in there.
Change anything that has to do with mana into focus. (Thrill of the Hunt)
Agility gives crit and dodge chance while using this spec
Hell, I’ll even take the deadzone back because it was an interesting challenge.
Wowaura dot com has TBC tallent charts if you want to see the glory for yourself. (I only worded it like that because we can’t put links in here)
Wonder what the point of this discussion is. Other than a handful of individuals vouching for it, I’ve hardly seen it being played (in fact, let me say that I’ve NEVER seen one played in BG’s, raids, heroics, mythics, normals or even in the open world), so unless it’s a spec you dink around with when bored, it’s a bloody waste of time, both for the players and devs.
The difference between the two is that while we bicker and make forum posts with numerous suggestions, they throw in a few changes and walk away for the whole xpac.
