Can someone explain why this is occupying a talent spot on our most powerful row? It is so bad that it isn’t even a meme. No one, not even people who have to wear a helmet to get through their day, use this talent. In the 3, maybe 4 years and as least 2, soon to be THREE iterations it has existed it has never been used. It doesn’t sim in ANY way to be good for PvE. There isn’t even a niche fight where it might be good. And I guess maybe it has SOME functionality in PvP where SPriests are absolute dumpster fires because it lets you get into Voidform quickly and solves Shadows biggest issue - casting mobility. That said, if it were a PvP gimmick, then the upcoming Shadowlands change, which makes it more like it’s first incarnation, completely invalidates it for PvP because you are almost certainly not going to be able to kill someone within 20 seconds unless you’re running around in a death ball and at that point why would you even take this talent when Dark Ascension would be safer?
I’d really love a dev to justify its existence and explain why the only viable talent for 2 years on that row has been Legacy of the Void.
3 Likes
Because Blizzard refuses to scrap it or make it worth using
It’s getting a rework for Shadowlands, and it’ll be just as bad, if not worse
5 Likes
Seriously. Blizz is baselining Wake of Ashes for Ret and reworking their talents and adding new ones, but we’re stuck with Legacy of the Void, which is so mandatory it SCREAMS “baseline”. I actually think Dark Ascension is interesting, but I can’t use it because it’s such a massive dps loss. They should remove STM and put in two new talents on par with DA so we actually get some choice!
And it’s 100x worse. Now it kills you (like it originally did) if you don’t kill something within 20 seconds of casting it. This basically makes it worthless for PvP.
2 Likes
I’d like it reworked to something useful
Maybe S2M could make voidform permanent, but once you run out of insanity, you take 50% of your health in damage, and voidform stacks resets
Just a random idea, but the current talent, and the new one coming in Shadowlands don’t feel like you’re giving into the void to me. They feel like generic dps CDs that don’t feel very impactful
2 Likes
The problem with the talent is that it can’t compete with the other two, particularly LOTV, which is mandatory and has been since it was introduced. The OTHER major problem is that 99% of the time if you use it, you die. You have to be above 90% HP to not get one shot when it ends and that’s impossible in almost all raiding scenarios and in PvP where you’re constantly taking damage.
It’s actually worse in Shadowlands than in BFA, and it’s unusable in BFA.
6 Likes
While I agree that StM is horrible and VF & this talent should be reworked, it was arguably the most OP talent the game has ever seen in early Legion. Look at some Emerald Nightmare/early Nighthold logs, and you’ll see how absurd it was.
I think it was nerfed sometime mid Nighthold patch, and was never heard from again.
Just another reason why the MoP talent redesign was a failure. Too many dead talents, too many dead rows, and Blizz refuses to fix them. What’s the point of “choice” if choosing a talent ends up being a dps loss? Is it a “choice” to spec into a punishment talent?
2 Likes
The only way S2M will ever work is if they make it the most powerful DPS cooldown in the game which would allow a skilled player to dunk on any other DPS in raid. Thats literally the only way to make the risk vs reward worth it considering the whole dying aspect. No other class/spec has to deal with that crap and that’s the only way to keep the whole “die if you fail aspect” interesting AND viable. Otherwise like 90% of our talents it’s a dead choice.
2 Likes
Strictly speaking, I don’t think it’s a failure of the system. The system itself is fine and could work, it’s just not always being handled well.
As far as why certain talents should be a DPS loss (at least relative to others in its row, no talent should actually lower your DPS relative to no talent chosen at all)…In theory, it’s because that talent either shores up a weakness of the spec or makes something easier to do. Essentially, the ‘hardest version’ of the spec would also be the one that does the highest DPS, but easier versions would exist for players that don’t want to take on all the extra work.
Right now if you don’t take Legacy of the Void and Lingering Insanity the spec literally does not work (and if you take anything other than it you should uninstall the game). The fatal flaw with insanity (longest ramp in the game, bar none) and voidform is that shadow does all it’s actual work while in voidform and you need Lingering Insanity in order to get back into Voidform fast enough to be a competitive dps. I can’t wait to see how bad my toon feels when I lose 3x Chorus of Insanity and can no longer keep up high amounts of crit and haste. -.-
1 Like
Take off your Azerite gear, and neck, then go to a target dummy. That’s how it will play and it’s terrible.
2 Likes
Yeah, I saw Bellular’s video today and shed a tear. T_T
1 Like