Summon Infernal is not impactful or fun

Classes Warlock
1

Recent changes on TWW alpha removed Avatar of Destruction and replaced it with Decimating Bolt.

The reasons given for this was that it made Summon Infernal less fun and impactful, because you had access to more infernals, and as such more AoE stun.

Removing Avatar of Destruction does NOT make Summon Infernal more impactful or fun.

Summon Infernal is so incredibly weak that it’s value rests primarily within the generation of shards to use Chaos Bolt and Rain of Fire more frequently for a short time. Even this on its own is so weak that Avatar of Destruction was required to make it worth while.

Removing Avatar of Destruction without a complete rework of what Summon Infernal actually does removes an entirely useful way of playing Destruction.

Our options of builds with good talent synergy are now reduced with these changes, which is bad. The whole point of the modern talent system is that we have options for play styles within specs.

Consideration has been given to the placement of Decimating Bolt and its focus on buffing Incinerate at the expense of talents such as Ritual of Ruin and Burn to Ashes, which now do not have a synergy with the placement of Avatar of Destruction.

Therefore, the current changes gut one play style to buff an already existing one, resulting in a loss for Destruction as a whole. Buffing the Incineration build play style also goes AGAINST the warlock goals for TWW, as it increases fluctuation based on number of targets in combat through Fire and Brimstone. The aim was to reduce this, NOT increase it.

If this is to work then talents buffing spenders, such as Ritual of Ruin and Burn to Ashes must be moved closer to Summon Infernal within the talent tree, and Summon Infernal itself needs a complete redesign so it feels impactful and fun. At the very least it should last for an additional 8 seconds to compensate what we are losing from Avatar of Destruction, but that would be a lazy solution and the pet would just still feel inferior to the utility it provides through shard generation and stun.

Just to reiterate, Summon Infernal is not fun or impactful.

12 Likes
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To me summon infernal is only fun. Because your summoning a damn infernal. So to see avatar removed its going to make summon infernal even less fun because it doesn’t feel anywhere near as satisfying to only see one infernal on the field as opposed to two.

That and I don’t get their logic for this anyway. Like if this is true then why give paladins a talent that passively makes them pop wings every once in awhile? does that not make avenging wrath not feel as fun or impactful given their logic?

I hate inconsistency

4 Likes
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Creating shards is impactful, but if they wanna make a cd feel “more impactful” by removing avatar this is the kind of design that i just cannot get behind. In fact i prefer if infernal gives me shards to spend, and gives me more powerful abilities than infernal just doing damage by itself, immolation is the boring part, the interesting part is the soul shards.

If your idea of making something feel nice is to remove something else, you just failed as a developer.

This is shameful. They touched one of the few things they should have NEVER TOUCHED!

Whoever is behind these changes is literally insane.

Take a look at mage or ww monk, or any class that is actually fun to play, it the idea of removing things in order to make other things “more fun” the predominant idea you see in the spec??

NO IT ISN’T! Because removing something cool DOES NOT MAGICALLY MAKE SOMETHING ELSE MORE FUN! Or more impactful. All you accomplished was removing something.

You are a failure as a developer. I have never seen such a level of incompetence.

I just want to see someone who has a clue take over this clown show, and hopefully bring some changes that actually feel nice.

How is it possible to miss the mark so much since aberrus and still believe you’re in the right! It’s crazy! What’s the big idea here? I don’t see any, in fact, i don’t see any thinking at all!

Removed avatar and put decimation bolt in there, like what in the actual?? It doesn’t even synergize with ritual, just wtf are you doing??

Oh but we all know what they are gonna do next, they are just gonna remove ritual, wait and see.

Nothing is off limits at this point, the stupid is pouring like rain in a summer tempest.

Oh but it’s just alpha, NO! It’s not just alpha, they changed a lot of stuff for ww monk, and then they kept iterating on it, but the core idea itself was GOOD! That’s the difference. Nobody was like “oh come on guys this is just the alpha it will get better” for ww monk. NO! It was good since the beginning. Good changes tend to follow good changes and bad changes tend to follow bad changes, because someone who is smart and knows what he or she is doing, likely has a clue what is fun, and what is not fun to play with, you don’t just make charcoal out of what should have been a cake, and then at the end it somehow becomes good because you may or may not have added a good sauce. NO! If the cake was badly made, you DO IT AGAIN!

You seriously think that they are gonna get things right? When they start with changes like this? Stop coping. The rework is fundamentally flawed, and the only thing that will make it better is if they stop screwing around, get a brain, and start doing things that actually feel fun to play with. Starting by reverting all of the complete and utter garbage changes they did since aberrus. It’s crazy that these changes are even worse than the druid changes, how can you keep screwing up so badly?? When other specs are getting better and better? I think there is a clear difference in quality, some devs simply know what they are doing, and others do not.

Notice, this is not directed to the comments above, it’s just that the argument about “it’s just alpha” is so shortsighted and frankly stupid, that it does piss me off. And i guarantee that someone is gonna make it.

4 Likes
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Yeah I am not a fan of this, whatever I’m gonna be rocking a Destro Diabolist so that might offset this weird change a little.

For real tho at this point just either make cataclysm baseline or split it from the node.

Nobody is going to use it otherwise, I can just cast immolate in rapid succession 5-6 times on a pack, there is a macro for that.

Yall got no idea how fun it is to have 2 avatars of destruction dancing in your rain of fire spam, you guys have no clue.

2 Likes
5

Infernal imo is only good if you get the modifiers that the talents add to it, the extra infernals, chaosbringer, having a shorter cd on it, the appeal of infernal itself is to have more infernals not less, infernal itself by itself is beyond lackluster unlike most other cds it does not to add to damage, it add resource gain, the damage it can add is in melee range, so in pvp it can be cced for the entire length of the infernal’s life, in pve when you have mobs moving around or swapping the damage you get from it drops off due to it running slowly over to the mobs or boss. As for the shard regen having one shard generating infernal is not super impactful to our game play it since it only stays around for a short amount of time giving you one extra chaos bolt or one extra rain of fire, if a cd gives you the same amount of chaos bolts that immolation does than how will it become super impactful to the gameplay?

1 Like
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The damage boost from the shard generation and things like Crashing Chaos is fairly significant, so that does make it impactful.

1 Like
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I don’t want to see ANY demon summoning in Destro honestly. I want to see more splashy huge casts… where is a reimagined Hellfire? Where’s channel demonfire rework into felfire torrent (cast while move!) Where’s like a doomfire bolt and blah blah etc.

The class just needs to be casting huge chunky spells that hit like a truck. Summoning is kinda dumb for the spec that doesn’t really want summons (IMO)

2 Likes
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It’s just damage at the end of the day, crashing chaos that is.

You won’t even notice it unless you look at details, and the shard gen, we always had that, that was the cool part, and why blasphemy was cool.

1 Like
9

I say remove

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I mean it is just damage, that’s true, but when you get that plus potions and other buffs, Getting 1 million damage chaos bolts is pretty impactful. It’s great for burst phases or just when all the cool downs are popped.

There are different ways for things to be impactful. Utility is one way and throughput is another.

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This is a game we, presumeably, play for fun and power fantasy. Removal of AoD is a needless diminishment of both spectacle and tactile gameplay enhancement because this dev can’t figure out how to make another part of the spec worthwhile. That any player is siding with this decision is utterly baffling.

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Battle for Azeroth, a lone dwarf stood on the bridge to Dun Baldar, his Heart of Azeroth gave him a dream most intriguing, one of fire raining and infernals dancing.

The Horde, bloodlust plain as day, charged the warlock, who made his dream a reality. The bridge was choked in raining hellfire, and Chaos truly reigned as infernals scorched the skies.

(One of my only super fun memories from BfA, the insane soul shard generation of Inferno + Rain of Chaos. I managed similar moments in SL with the set bonus, and in DF too, but it never quite hit the same as it did in BfA…)

2 Likes
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Yeah good times. Seriously this is good wholesome fun, not sure what they are thinking up there in the kitchen.

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The part that makes that memory so… amazing, is that I legit turned the Horde push around by myself. That was just how insane BfA was that a single warlock could put out so much damage that the enemy team would rather turn around, xD.

Edit: Almost beats my memory of Alterac Valley in Mists of Pandaria, 73 killing blows, 0 deaths, holding the chokepoint by the graveyard with my kinfolk in Clan Battlehammer!

Edit 2: Pretty sure we still lost that AV in BfA tho. >_>

2 Likes
15

Here’s an idea to make cd demons fun…grimoire of supremacy, make them perma demons like they were in legion, than have their command demon ability be their cd to help the warlock, (I know it could cause issues with demo, but imagine this instead, Demo’s felguard talents could be edited to work with the tyrant) It would be fun.

1 Like
16

wake of ashes wings talent is absolutely hated by the high end community btw. they should buff infernal so it can become a actual cd button again. because avatar did make it lose value somewhat

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dont bother, the man is absolutely insane and doesnt care about the overal health of any spec he plays

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It didn’t, because avatar and infernal can be out at the same time.

As for your jab at me, pathetic, but that’s all you are at the end of the day. “the health of the spec” Doesn’t seem to be working out so great for the actual gameplay, and at the end of the day that’s what’s important.

With love.

19

You mean… like I did here? :stuck_out_tongue:

1 Like
20

I think it’s all a matter of visuals. We barely see our pets in the middle of all the visual combat pollution.

Instead of a single infernal, simply change it so it will summon multiple infernals, 4-5. The idea is to have these guys around doing the same damage but covering more area since they can attack different targets.

Another thing is making its spell effects more visual, like waves of fire coming out of the infernal so it’s clear from where it comes.

Last thing that could be done is simple: provide an option for outline mode that apply it to all of our pets, so we can see them through the mess.