Suggestion: Thunder Focus Tea should not cancel Celestial Conduit

Classes Monk
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Thunder Focus tea isn’t a healing or damaging ability, it’s a buff.

I don’t think that Thunder Focus Tea should cancel conduit. I’m not entirely convinced this isn’t a bug either since TFT isn’t technically a healing or damage spell in-of-itself and isn’t named in the conduit tooltip/description. Think we should be able to cast TFT during conduit to begin it’s cd in, get our empowered spell charges for when conduit ends, and min/max the conduit cdr.

I don’t imagine this was intended by the devs though given that conduit says “may cast non-damage and non-heal spells while channeling conduit.” And TFT isn’t a healing or damaging spell. This has kinda bothered me all season but I think especially with the improvements to CC’s cdr this would be a small thing that would make me happy

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I think at this point it’s pretty obvious the devs couldn’t care less about MW. The class is still packed with bugs, QoL is terrible, and they just nerfed us back to square one.

So at this point it’s either pick another class or another game.

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This is such an insane take I actually can’t tell if it’s bait or not.

MW has been getting regular changes since Dragonflight and a majority of them have been overwhelmingly positive for both spec health and performance. We have one of the most proactive devs and to say they “couldn’t care less” is objectively incorrect.

I understand seeing nerfs never feels good but 4% is an appropriate nerf but it still really only impacts us in raid.

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No they haven’t been ‘generally positive’. They’re random at best and have made it abundantly clear they have no idea how the class actually works.

We’re losing our 4 piece set bonus which was crucial for EvM ramp windows, for a crappier set bonus that they have now nerfed repeatedly. Mastery, our worst stat, was nerfed as well.

They made a few small buffs, and then rolled the entire thing back with a flat nerf across the board. Where-as before we were stronger in multi-target scenarios (trash) and weaker in single, now we’re just weaker period… we don’t even get to be strong in trash anymore.

Then just to be jerks they nerfed mana tea??? We have the least efficient heals of all the healers, by a large margin. SooM spam will put you oom ridiculously fast, only balanced by the fact that we spend a lot of out time kicking/punching and mana tea… so they nerf that!?

This absolutely guts MW for M+. You will not get in a high key, period. No group will ever take a MW over a disc, rdruid, or shammy… it’s yet to be seen if we’re even ahead of pres-evoker.

But at least I can play brew… oh wait no, that’s crap too.

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Yeah, I’m sure Toixic will not get into any high keys lol.

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I was using ‘you’ generically. Clearly that player doesn’t even run keys and does only raiding. Most of the buffs were buffs directed at raiding (for some bizarre reason) despite MW being quite strong.

It was M+ where MW was weak… and got even more nerfed in.

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Clearly :joy:

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My profile is public, you’re welcome to check :heart:

Many of the changes were made from public feedback from players of all content backgrounds and across the board have been well received. Of course when balancing between multiple forms of content it will never be perfect but it’s in a pretty good spot at the moment (can’t speak much on pvp though).

I do find it a bit silly that you’re on here claiming that the dev doesn’t know how the class works, and you seem to be convinced MW is dead when it’s quite the opposite. Starting some time in DF, there has never been a better time to be a MW, the MW population has never been higher, and it’s a direct result of a dev who is involved and is receptive to feedback.

We have one of the best mana pools in the game and this doesn’t change anything. At most you’ll need to be a little more conscious of your mana in raid.

You won’t notice that -4% in M+ I promise.

Our power has been redistributed to help flatten the curve between multi and single target which is more of a M+ buff than anything since in higher keys we ended up needing to EnvM ramp before nearly every mechanic. Chi-ji was effectively a Chi Cocoon bot in ST situations due to being tuned around multi-target/cleave situations.

The “feast or famine” regarding enemy target count was a major issue that Mistweaver faced and it has been dealt with in a way that does not change the core playstyle or remove needed power in one way or another.

In M+, Mistweaver hasn’t been “weak” since maybe S2 of DF where we had some pretty substantial survival issues (which were fixed and we’re now extremely tanky). That doesn’t mean we were meta between then and now, but to say we were weak is false.

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I didn’t realize raiderio had reset their ratings. TBH I don’t really care, good players aren’t necessarily good designers and vice versa, in fact often the opposite.

But I’ll ask you this, what’s the highest key you ran in a PUG?

They had absolutely no correlation to public feedback, they never have.

It’ll be fine for raiding, terrible for M+.

I started in DF season 1 as well, and that’s not true. DF S1 MW were in a fantastic spot, people just didn’t know about it.

Only because alts are easy to level and everyone switches on a near weekly basis on ‘what is their main’.

A direct nerf across the board was never feedback. JE buffed out the wazzoo and then the entire speced nerfed because of that was never what players wanted. The insurance! set bonus was never what players wanted.

No we don’t. You hit SooM and your mana will absolutely drain. You have maybe 30s of hard casting and you’re completely empty. The only upside is that you can get by punching/kicking with minimal mana drain. SooM has always been a fall back to make up the gaps in the MW kit.

It was a problem they ‘fixed’ by making everything a famine. We no longer have feast, we’re just bad across the board now. On top of that you now have no options or talent choices. And the whole thing just highlights how badly our talent tree is designed.

No it’s not false at all. We’re ‘B’ tier which means if a person were going to try to PUG it, they wouldn’t get accepted. It’ll be all disc, rdruid, shammys, and it looks like pres evokers.

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Tbf I think the nerfs to mana tea should be reverted or our spell costs should be brought down. Some heal specs never go oom and I don’t understand why it’s a factor in pve (pvp sure i get it,) or like why our dispel costs a ton of mana. Also hello, I haven’t seen you in dornogol in a minute, I was thinking about swapping healing tea talent node for tea of plenty. I notice a lot of mw’s are opting to not run healing tea? Which seems kinda wild to me for m+ since we don’t have a cheat death or invulnerability/immunity or anything, but open minded since we can not longer get sheilun’s with only one point in rapid diffusion, and i want to take other talents like uplifted spirits, peer into peace, or tea of plenty.

Oh and one more thing (which I came here to post about) do you have a WA for Bounce Back? I need one because I want to time its cool up/down and active time so I don’t combine a defensive with its DR unless I want to make an informed decision to do that.

I don’t think there is any need to be so aggressive to all of us. Me and Meg are in the like top 50 mw’s NA. She’s top 10-20 and one of the few people to get Title every season since it was added, and I was in and out of top 40 throughout the season. I know the changes can be tilting. It sucks to see my favorite spec and toon get nerfed, and I’ve tilt posted before, but calm down.

Look, MW has a lot of problems and I think we all have ideas for what the spec should be like and opinions about changes, but taking it out on other mw players going through the same thing is not productive and has nothing to do with thunder focus tea cancelling Celestial Conduit

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We’re one of those specs, but I do think Mana as a limitation is a bit outdated kind of like threat is (but thats an entirely different convo)

I’ve been drifting in Undermine (:

Healing Elixir is still a really good talent (and I do miss taking it) but since Sheilun’s Gift got moved up a tier HE became the expendable talent since it started competing with things like Deep Clarity, Calming Coalescence, and Mist Wrap and it just doesn’t provide as much value as those things. That being said Mist Wrap would be the point I would drop for HE if you really wanted to take it because EnvM ramps are not as prominent in lower keys since the damage is not as intense.

Rapid Diffusion has always been 2 points

I have a WA to tell me when my Bounce Back is active but since it doesn’t DR the ability that procs it I don’t find much value in tracking when it’s available. If the incoming damage is 1 hit you’ll need a defensive since it doesn’t DR the proc, and if it’s a DoT you’ll be able to see that Bounce Back is active and you can hold your defensive. It’s inside of the Monk Pack found either on my wago or my website (can’t post links).

Aggression is one thing but to also be objectively wrong while being aggressive
/shrug

I think this is just a low priority bug since there’s no real reason to cast TFT during Conduit but I agree it should be fixed. One of those weird things similar to how even though Expel Harm is technically a heal and damaging ability, it won’t interrupt the Conduit channel

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Yea. Would you mind meeting at the incontinental hotel to share the WA? We’re on the same realm so hopefully should be on same shard. Or maybe just whisper it to me. Aoibhinn-Lightning’s Blade

I see, I thought I only needed one point in rapid to get to sheiluns, I see now (looking at image of old tree) that you used to be able to get to sheilun’s from a diff node. I used to take a point out of rapid to put into something else depending on the dungeon.

Fistweaving does require one part zug brain.

You would be starting the cool down of TFT sooner so it starts cd while channeling conduit. If I want to prepare tft for env/expel/etc when conduit ends and want the full duration of CC I either have to do it before, at the very end, or else cancels conduit during. Jade Sanctuary also says you heal 10% max hp when you cast conduit and then get 15% DR for its duration and then for 8 seconds after. My conduit channels over 3 seconds, so I could, assumedly, get 11 seconds of DR combined during and after the cast.

Conduit and Tea and their lack of overlap sort of limits my decision making during this window. It might also be a bit min-maxy that if TFT comes off cd while channeling CC I want to start it’s cd before the the CDR benefit or not spend a global on it coming out of conduit. But that might just be nit picky on my part.

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I’m sorry if that came across as a ‘you personally’, I meant it in the ‘generic you’. Both you, and Toixic apparently, have a very high io; but whether she was 3600 or 1600, doesn’t matter to me. I argue the point, not the person.

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This hasn’t really been an issue for me. I mostly TFT-RSK/RWK before pressing conduit for the extra vers or TFT-Haste to spread env mist/harmonies around before pressing Conduit. Also so the CDR starts for tft/rsk asap instead of after. ( the vers adds a good amt of extra healing/damage to conduit ).
I dont see the point in popping it mid Conduit but I also don’t see the harm in letting us do so too. It’s off the GCD, should just let us do it like with SooM.

I’m just super glad they are addressing Conduit breaking due to extra Enveloping Mists from Misty Peaks or Jade Bond tbh. It was super depressing to set up ren mists/harmonies and Env Mist and then press Conduit for it to only tick once, and then stop.

Even in my non meta build it is VERY difficult to OOM on monk if you are paying attention to mana tea and remembering to use it before healing intensive phases for mana discounts. Non issue really. Wont be an issue either after the nerf ( see below for the breakdown on why this is a non issue )

MW is still up there with disc/R druid even post nerf and is in a good place going into 11.1. The general consensus among the big players is that even with the recent nerfs monk is still very strong in general. Maintain a decent IO/rating early on and you shouldn’t have issues pugging into a group ( or make a group and do your own keys to circumvent that issue entirely ).

Early S1 DF was pretty miserable actually and we were originally ranked near the bottom ( go check out early 10.0 healer tier lists ). Later tier lists from DF are more optimistic. Thankfully the devs were listening to us because they made huge improvements in that season alone, and they did so very early.

In 10.0.5 they added a bunch of things we had been asking for:

  • Sheilun’s Gift ( literal lay on hands 3 targets that would eventually get a talent to make it hit 5 people in the same season )
  • They gave Revival/Retoral a 100% boost in dungeons ( huge )
  • Reduced the cost of vivify because it was very expensive coming in to DF ( nice qol )
  • Allowed feyline bonuses to linger for after leaving stomp and improved it’s shape/effective area ( nice qol )
  • Rising Mist extending the duration of Rapid Diffusion Env Mists
  • other small qol additions to the talent tree you can go check out

In 10.0.7 They added

  • 5 man sheilun’s gift talent ( Group lay on hands go brrrr )
  • TFT making Env Mist Instant ( HUGE win )
  • Shield/Chi Cocoon portion to Yu’Lon/Chi’Ji/Celestial Harmony was added ( VERY HUGE and we had been asking for some kind of absorb effect to extend health bars somewhere in the toolkit - this absorb was just recently buffed and if you run Jade Bond it’s a pretty significant absorb on everyone )
  • Env Mist healing buff

Those are pretty significant changes early and mid season 1 that made the spec as a whole much better than it was coming into DF. Changes that we had been asking for and giving feedback about in the Beta for DF even. Saying the devs aren’t listening to monk feedback at this point is such a wild take. They even listened to non meta peasants like me and still kept other non jadefire builds decently balanced so we can do our 10’s and push decently higher if we wanted to.

People have been asking for some kind of Jade Lightning buff for awhile now, lots of us floated the idea around of an aoe CJL way before it even became a thing. They listened and added it.

Press mana tea before and while doing this?

Not that you would just sit there soom spamming vivifies w/o setting up RenMist/Harmony/Env Mist before hand to get much more healing - but I just went and tested and you can literally sit there channeling soothing mist and spamming soom vivifies back to back for 53 seconds nonstop in combat before going OOM ( without using Mana Tea AT ALL ) ( so 42 vivifies ).

With mana tea ( +energizing Brew talented ) weaved in between each soom+vivify spam cycle I was able to keep soom spamming vivify for 1:56 min. ( or 84 vivifies before hard OOMing w no more mana tea stacks ) ( this was without a mana potion thrown in there ) ( mana restored was 1.93 million ). The difference between now and tomorrow’s mana tea nerf is literally like 3-4 vivifies. ( IIRC you can get more mana tea stacks with the other talent node instead of energizing brew, I just like the quick use of energizing brew )

( Again though you wouldn’t play like that at all ever though. )

Looking at all of that it’s easy to understand why the mana tea nerf is happening. It’s such a small nerf that we wont feel it if you are properly using the mana tea, like Toixic said.

If you are straight up OOming on mistweaver in 30 seconds that is a HUGE get good issue tbh.

Source? Like where are you getting this information? Most big streamers/healers are putting MW at a solid A even after the nerfs tomorrow. Monk is still extremely good for pug healing too.

TLDR: You are so very wrong about like everything and we are not doomed. Chillax friend.

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Try pugging a SV 15 (prior to the nerf) and come back to me on that one. Sure it’s easy when you have a pre-made with AMZ to cover, but if your group is a shammy, a hunter, and a boomkin, you’re going OOM or they will drop.

You need a full 4 person SooM EvM ramp every ~21s. Each of those is going to cost you ~1/5 of your mana pool. Even with mana tea spam and mana/cave pots, you’re still going oom after about 3 rounds. If you used lust on the first pull of SV, you’re doing at least 3 rounds…

That was before the latest round of nerfs. Disc/shammy/rdruid will be the M+ choices. MW will not see action in higher keys.

This is not true. MW was in a better position S1, and I pugged my way to 3196. So 15s/14s. After 14s you will never be selected over a meta. I got lucky on the 4 15s I did time. Timed them all on the first attempt, and only was picked because they were monday night ‘throw away’ groups.

I would spend hours playing the LFG game, passed over for disc/shammys 5 ilvls and 100io lower. Many groups would have an enhance/ele and still pick resto shammy over a MW.

Yes, the pre-mades will be fine. All 10 of them. But if your guild/friend group doesn’t push high keys, you’re SOL if you’re not at least approaching the meta.

I played all through S1 DF, it’s when I rolled my MW. Sure the changes were nice, but they didn’t make/break the build. Everyone was going the megasett Chi-Ji build and ignored the sleeper Essence Font build. It was amazing in DF because DF M+ was just a bunch of running around. But again it didn’t matter because in PUGs if you’re not meta, you won’t get a groups.

Then buffed it a second time, then nerfed the whole spec. Now the specs a mess where JE is stronger than any other single talent point short of maybe ancient teachings, while our capstones are a disaster and the filler to them even worse.

And with the loss of our 4 piece tier bonus EvM ramps will be near impossible. Even druids don’t have as much setup as we do.

And I know none of these people are playing with PUGs because if you had you’d know this is not true. EDNA, Machinists, Throngus, Anub’ikkaj, Izo, etc… all require full EvM ramps going into the aoe blasts, which are timed around every 30s or so.

And with PUGs, you can’t rely on them lining up defenses properly. So you can’t just hit harmony and punch/kick your way through.

I didn’t know 15s were still in the ‘git gud’ category…

In raids, sure. In M+, no.

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It is still impossible to OOM in 30 seconds.

Longer than 30 seconds. Way to move that goalpost.

I look forward to Meg proving you wrong. ( and she will/already has ) :slight_smile:

No MW wasn’t in a better position in DF s1. You are entitled to your opinion but it’s pretty much wrong. If you need to revisit the past youtube still has tier vids going into DF. We had big issues DF s1, but yes you could still pug to 20’s if you were determined enough ( I did it in a non meta build ) . Though it got much better after they buffed us in 10.0.5 and 10.0.7.

Dont tell me aoe lay on hands and revival being actually useful in m+ werent big for the spec rofl. You want to refute points but that isnt the point either, my point was devs HAVE been listening for quite some time. You said they weren’t. You are still wrong.

So make your own groups and dont stack them with dps that cant/dont use or have defensives for keys that high?

Because we are probably performing better than they wanted us to? Because we are actually in a good spot?

We survived before the 4 set and we will survive after it is gone. Pick up Rising Mist if you want easier ramps.

Well according to you after 30 seconds you are OOM and cant finish the dungeon. Id say Meg proved that wrong easily by timing higher keys than you CLAIM to have timed. I highly doubt she OOM’d in 30 seconds. She is literally in here telling you it’s such a minor change. The math even shows it’s such a minor change that unless you are playing so poorly and ignoring mana tea you wont notice it.

I said nothing about 15’s. I said if you OOM in 30s on MW you are bad and should work on that. You are here posting on a warrior who hasn’t even completed 10’s, for all we know you are just trolling.

Everyone literally disagrees with you, but you do you. If you want to doom I suggest moving on to a new class. ( assuming you even play monk )

Literally has TWO of the top monk players telling you it’s okay and you are still dooming. It’s kinda silly.

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Because pedantic toxicity is going to win you points online.

Meg doesn’t pug. None of the top players pug.

It did. And what they didn’t do is buff us then blanket nerf the whole spec to ‘compensate’.

Stomp still had a CD, we still have to track 2 separate buffs just to fistweave, TFT is massively overloaded. I could write pages on QoL changes that wouldn’t touch HPS and still they won’t do even the most minimal of changes. Sorry no, the devs don’t listen.

Again, that’s not pugging.

In raids sure, not in M+.

Talk about moving goal posts ‘survive’ isn’t what I inspire to do in a video game. If you like RPing in Dornogal then go for it, but then why are you posting here? This won’t affect you in any way.

She never PUGd them. She’s a great player, but that doesn’t mean she knows all. She also runs harmony and doesn’t use EvM ramps (rather RM), which just isn’t viable in PUGs.

Yes, because my io shouldn’t matter, my arguments should. But as always, instead of presenting counter arguments all you have are insults.

Says the guy doing nothing but trolling?

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Lol you must not know who the best MW/ content creator is

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They don’t seem to know much tbh. ( even when one of the best monks are up in here telling them how it is )

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I mostly play m+ and have not even done raid with any talents other than my m+ talents. I think i experimented a few times and just went back to fistweaving. In m+ though where fights usually last like less than 2-3 minutes being able to make a decision in the span of like the 3 sec channel window of Conduit is pretty important. While i do often elect to use tft before conduit, the choice to cast conduit is not always planned but a good choice in that moment and I might need it right now.

Even if it’s not a min-max effeciency thing to save seconds or a gcd before or after conduit, it still bothersome that it cancels conduit when it should not.

They don’t seem to know much tbh. ( even when one of the best monks are up in here telling them how it is )

I hope when blizzard reads these threads that they see my OP and remember it’s about TFT cancelling conduit and not the arguing that ensued after.