[Suggestion] - A Pickpocket Rework

I’m somebody who enjoys a little bit of class fantasy in my online role playing games™ and I had an idea for Pickpocket while playing today on my new rogue.

So one of the major issues with Pickpocket is that it doesn’t really get you anything anymore. Used to be nice in Classic to get that extra silver here and there or a tigerseye you could hock on the AH for some good moneys, but nowadays it feels really forgotten.

I remember in Legion (and I think WoD too but never played rogue in WoD) they had a unique currency for Rogues to pickpocket and they got some fun little trinkets n junk they could buy that no other class could buy, that was cool. But hear me out, new idea.

Part 1: The Rogue’s Stash.

I think Rogues, upon learning Pickpocket, should gain an extra bag similar to the Keyring of old (I was there when the ancient texts were written), and it only holds loot obtained via pickpocketing. It’s called the Stash. Any time they Pickpocket, any items found automatically get tossed into the Stash instead of the inventory. It has 16 slots, just like the Backpack, and only “Pickpocket” items can go in there. It also has its own Currency tracker at the bottom of it, which tracks your “Markers” (part 2). All of these items are white-name items that have various uses that I’ll get into (part 3). At vendors, for rogues only, there’s a “Sell Stash” button that’ll clear your Stash for gold value instead of alt uses.

Part 2: Markers.

“Markers” are my stand-in name for a Legion-style pickpocketing currency that only Rogues can get. In different towns, there’s Rogue vendors who will sell Toys, Mounts, Cosmetics, Conveniences, etc. only for Rogues. Things like shadowy bandanas, tight leather outfits, your typical run-of-the-mill scoundrel attire. And, to add RP fantasy value, put different themed outfits in different places. Have Defias gear you can find from a hidden Deadmines rogue vendor only rogues can see, have a hidden vendor in Icecrown Citadel that sells Gheist-lookin’ gear, maybe someone in Desolace that sells some Night Elf lookin’ stuff, etc.

Different zones would have different cosmetics or mounts or whatever and you’d be able to pickpocket clues from creatures in that zone that add markers to your map that show you how to find the hidden vendors.

Part 3: Pickpocket Item Uses

So, I like the idea that you could find valuable gems in pockets and use them for Engineering, Jewelcrafting, etc. and you could also find cloth or leather sometimes too, especially in the junkboxes you find. I wanna see that get expanded upon in a fun way.

Imagine if the items you find are things like “A leather wallet,” “A silk kerchief” etc., and if you have the appropriate profession, you can break those into Leather, Silk, etc.

Now take it a step further with Warbands, what if you could throw those items into your Warband stash, and have another character of yours who has the profession break them down? Obviously it wouldn’t be anywhere near as effective as just having Skinning, not even close, but it’d be a neat roleplay-centric means of gathering materials as a rogue.

Like imagine with me, your Warband is delving into War Within’s zones, and the rogue of the group comes in and dumps out a pouch of materials that they scavenged to help the rest of them craft.

Now there’s more uses I thought of too: What if you were able to “examine” the item, such as a Wallet, and find a clue about who it belongs to? Now you can find the person it belongs to, maybe a completely randomly chosen NPC, and when you return it to them, you can choose to ransom their thing (get more money or possibly fight the NPC when they get mad), or you can be generous and give it back (get like 2 reputation instead).

I feel like these little things wouldn’t be difficult to program into the game and would add a massive amount of roleplay value to playing a Rogue, and would be an Evergreen thing that could carry into future expansions easily, and could VERY easily be brought back into prior expansions too.

It would obviously be tuned to not make Rogues overpowered. Naturally, 10% Rep Gains from Humans was OP with Warbands existing and so if Rogues could even get 2 Rep with a faction for finding a lost wallet, people would see Rogues as OP in terms of rep gain, but hear me out.

Goblins get the best repair costs, Zandalar Trolls get 7% more gold from loot, we already have races that have advantages in terms of some kind of currency acquisition. On top of that, we have players who bought a dang Auction House mount who can very easily make millions if not billions of gold farming dungeons for BoEs and selling them on the spot. Then to add insult to injury, we got the WoW token giving anyone who has $20 to throw away 200k+ gold. I think we should stop with this whole “everything needs to be balanced” in the first place, and just let your class choice give you advantages in some aspect.

In Wildstar (remember that game?) you could pick a playstyle and whatever you picked would change how your character levels up as a primary means. You could be a person who builds outposts and collects resources to do so, you could be a person who just does combat, you could be a person who explores and finds secrets, and you could be a person who looks for lore objects in the world. Whatever you picked heavily changed your gameplay, HEAVILY, and opened entire zones up that only you and your party members could enter.

I think it’d be neat if a Rogue could pick a lock in a dungeon to make a shortcut, or if a Warrior could smash through a rock wall to skip a boss, or if a Druid could make a Worgen boss turn into an ally (dropping a loot chest instantly and becoming a mid-dungeon repair vendor), or if a Death Knight could go into a fight against two Undead bosses and force one of them to kill the other making the fight much easier. I feel like class fantasy is an extremely important thing, especially for WoW, and little things like that could take the game in an extremely huge fun direction.

Like, we have this whole “Take the player, not the class” philosophy, which has homogenized every class in the game, and now I barely notice a difference between a Feral Druid and an Assassination Rogue. Basically the exact same class.

I know, I know, “But Mythic parties who want to skip a boss will always want a Priest to use a Greater Shackle on an Undead boss to bypass it for the best time, that’s not fair!”

Sure it is. It just encourages people to play Priest. Like I get that people just wanna play one character and it’d be lame to be invited less because your class doesn’t do anything special in X dungeon, but maybe they do something special in Y dungeon and you can get in that one instead, y’know?

Sorry, rambled way off topic to explain why I want Pickpocket to be a more fun thing to do. I am still doing Cata Chromie Time and going around pickpocketing 1 silver 14 copper and a gray item that sells for 1 silver 1 copper off of every single enemy in Arathi Basin even though it is a complete waste of time. Why? Because my character is a thief. My character steals things. I want to steal from enemies. It is a thing I want to do.

I just think it’d be really nice for it to actually have a worthwhile feel to it, you know?

Also it’d be cool if Archaeology stopped being forgotten, I missed it in Shadowlands and DF, man. That’s neither here nor there.

Love y’guys.

Peace.

4 Likes

I think Pick Pocket and Pick Lock should be available at level 1, since (in my opinion) it’s a core facet of the Rogue class fantasy. I also believe that Blizzard should do away with the pick pocket requirement of things (it gets really janky doing later expansions at low levels with Chromie time, particularly dungeons like Tol Dagor).

I think the extra bag space as part of being a Rogue is a really neat idea, though I might simply prefer to have it extend the backpack space similar to the Vulpera’s racial ability.

Pickpocket currency would likely best be served as a currency that doesn’t take inventory space. That makes the most sense to me and follows the patterns already in use within the game.

Venders floating around in random locations throughout the world don’t make a ton of sense to me from a class fantasy/immersion perspective, but I WOULD love to see hidden basements scattered in a lot of inns and taverns throughout WoW’s universe similar to the secret passages displayed during the Legion expansion. Or at the very least, NPCs in those same locations who provide unique interactions with Rogue characters.

It would be pretty cool to see Pick Pocket have a chance to acquire resources (like Dragonscale Expedition Supplies), particularly if its not a hard-capped progression resource. Having more rogue-centric quests accessible only through Pick Pocket would be a really nice touch to improve Rogue class fantasy immersion.

Now to address some of the rambling…

As a few points of clarification, I don’t think Goblins really get much benefit from their “Best Deals Anywhere” racial now that costs aren’t tied to faction rep (particularly with the new Renown system). Also, Zandalari only get a 2% gold increase, and only from creatures (if they drop gold at all). And the ability to AH BoE items “on the spot” only offers a time saving advantage, not an in-game financial one.

As for the Wildstar comparison when illustrating methods to level up, WoW also has a bunch of different ways that players can level up. Even crafting offers experience points, and “Doubleagent” is famous for repeatedly hitting level cap without ever leaving the Pandaren starting zone.

Having certain classes enable certain shortcuts is certainly good for class fantasy (remember Covenant-related dungeon shortcuts in Shadowlands), but terrible for class balance and general health of the game when it can potentially affect high-end competition (remember Covenant-related dungeon shortcuts in Shadowlands). Nifty class-fantasy experiences should be desirable, but never mandatory. It’s a tricky balance to strike outside of primarily solo-oriented content (outdoors, Delves, etc).

“Take the player, not the class” philosophy generally ends up becoming “Take whichever player is playing the better performing class”. M+ dungeon metas are a sore example of this. So long as things are competitively timed (M+ timers, enrage timers), players won’t have total freedom to play whatever they want in more challenging content (and those class guides trickle down to many “casual” players).

Delves are the answer many of us are looking for in terms of repeatable content that allows developers to let players lean into their class fantasy (like the Delves that will be easier for classes or races which provide underwater breathing). It’s an exciting feature, to be sure. I just don’t want it filled to the brim with stealth detection mobs to the point that Stealth is just a uselessly unplayable mechanic.

2 Likes

I loved pickpocketing in Legion for the class items. Little class things like that are great for the game!

2 Likes

On a side note.

I was clearing out my bank in prep for TWW and came across my Bag of Coins. Been meaning to take it for a spin but got side tracked farming echoes. Maybe later tonight. :slight_smile:

The most fun I had pickpocketing was in Ashran. The second would be the PickPocket quests for gold.

Rogues got actually looked at in Legion.

4 Likes

Legion was just a great expansion all around except for certain classes that got destroyed like survival hunter or demo lock. Moonkin too. But for class flavor stuff A+

2 Likes

Forgot about pickpocket since it didn’t bring anything to Dragonflight. I just combined it with cheapshot and both happened at the same time. Auto loot is your friend in this manner.

There’s a fairly new addon available which helps Pickpocket feel more useful because it keeps track of the amount of gold it earns: https://legacy.curseforge.com/wow/addons/rogueloot

1 Like

Rob, I loved your post. So let me start with that so you know where my head is at. But this struck me:

“Bring the Player, Not the Class” Paradox

It seems to imply that “Take the player not the class” is an attainable reality, when every piece of historical attempts show that MMO players will always optimize any fun out of it, and if there is a 0.25% advantage to taking class A over class B, class B becomes “obsolete”.

I have harped on this for a long time, but the best answer seems to be using separate toolkits to give classes explicit advantages in certain contexts, and then smack those contexts EVERYWHERE YOU CAN. If everyone is advantaged, then no one is disadvantaged (sort of). Leaning in on the non-combat strengths of Rogue (stealth, shroud, pick pocket, pick lock), it adds an optimization dimension that extends beyond the combat balance. Suddenly and paradoxically, bringing the class not the player makes the game more about bringing the player who knows their class extremely well than about bringing the role optimized by class.

As far as in combat, it’s also great to have as many inversions of the meta (oftentimes within the same encounter, if possible) to allow several archetypes to shine forth. It’s certainly harder for encounter design teams to manage – a lot of spinning plates is never easy – as a dungeon master though, this is the best way to plan a campaign. You build in several options for your players to express their creativity and optimize locally with their group.


Rogue Strengths and Roleplay Abilities

Pickpocketing doesn’t need more systems to be good.
Just more scenarios to shine.

A great example is patrol mobs used to be a staple of dungeon design (they are far less common now). One of the most rewarding experiences playing a Rogue in group play was carefully watching, hitting a Vanish, throwing down a distract to stop a patrol from pathing into the party, and getting back to the fight. It’s unbelievable how meaningless this seems in the context of metrics and performance but how meaningful and vital it is to deliver in terms of experiences.


Fantasy beyond group utility

This is a topic I talk about a lot (yes: I am admitting I have no personality besides playing and planning RPGs), and one of the coolest suggestions someone brought forward to me was “It would be nice to be able to lie about a certain quest as a Rogue. Like every other class has to do it, but I can just pass a deception check (or get it free) and tell the quest giver that I already did that thing.” It just seemed so rich in worldbuilding, I couldn’t help but really chew on the idea. When I went back to WoD and heard Khadgar say “Well, I guess we owe you one” to Kargath, I also realized this was something they already snuck in game (incrementing a quest counter without requiring the underlying completion).

This isn’t relevant to the current expansion,

But for a future hero spec idea they could turn pickpocket into an ability that can be used in combat and not only do you steal pocket change and lint but also it could deal damage, apply debuffs, buff you etc.

Call the spec “Mugger” “Pillager” or something.