Subtlety has been on a downward spiral since the Legion redesign. I strongly believe Sub needs to go back to having one charge of Shadow Dance, and our damage outside of Dance needs to be increased. Additionally, since we’d be putting out less stuns if that happened, we should have Gouge back.
Furthermore, if SD returns to having only one charge, the value of manual restealths would be increased. In this current meta with DoTs flying everywhere and Demon Hunters existing, that will be harder than it used to be. To aid us with this, I propose the return of Shadow Walk with added functionality:
Shadow Walk
6 second duration, 1.5 minute cooldown
- Reduces the chance of enemies detecting you in Stealth.
- Damage taken will not break Stealth while this effect is active (but attacking will still bring you out of Stealth).
- Demon Hunters’ Spectral Sight will not detect you while this buff is active (alternatively, if that’s OP, they must be much closer to you in order to detect you while the buff is active).
I don’t think this would be overpowered, as only Sub would have this ability. This would be a welcome tool to help us achieve manual restealths in a meta that is more hectic than previous periods.
Thoughts?
4 Likes
my biggest issue is that they decided to change so much about sub without anyone in community really asking for it. honestly not a lot will save it at this point, backstab feels way too weak and your combo generating abilities don’t do any damage anymore like it did in previous expansions(which made it feel like you are constantly doing damage and it was fun). shadow dance should definitely be a 1 minute cd so that sub isnt completely based around a cooldown and can actually make backstab and evisc do good damage again. the only satisfaction on rogue you get is when you do a finishing move that actually does decent damage. but even then sub rogue just feels like cc bots now instead of the bursty/control class it used to be. they removed way too much depth from it and now we are just in a situation where all the r1 rogues just have to deal with it at this point. i know a bunch of them don’t like the changes from wod to legion. outlaw also got pruned like crazy from how many buttons it had in legion as well. it really turns off the player when you buy an “expansion” but you lose a quarter of your abilities. the amount of abilities in wrath-cata were perfect and i feel like this game needs to go in that direction. one ability won’t save subtlety, they removed that you had to stand behind the target to backstab (which doesn’t make any sense because its literally called backstab) that was very unique where you had to be behind the person to any good damage and what made sub feel special. but it’s removed now and probably not coming back as well as preparation, garrote, combat readiness, disarm, tricks, and gouge. if sub was like wod and before i would definitely play rogue again but until then it just feels like a cc bot to me
4 Likes
I don’t see how making Subtlety Rogues Non Spatiotemporal is going to help Rogues in PVP. If Demon Hunters are a problem use concealment-they have to have LOS.
Lets keep it simple.
Give us REAL Azurite abilities we can use in PVP. This in itself might be enough to put us over the edge.
Boost damage of Shadowstrike and Eviscerate. We were told the system has been simplified so they (Blizzard) can very easily change the damage on a particular ability.
I have become fond of my 2 Shadow Dances.
Lets not have Blizzard making huge changes in the middle of an expansion that aren’t needed and will probably only screw things up.
1 Like
I wouldn’t expect these changes to take place mid expansion. If they happened, they’d come at the start of a new one.
Just giving us new Azerite abilities would be a short-term fix to a long-term problem. Azerite will go away. We need improvements to our baseline kit. Having two charges of Shadow Dance has pigeonholed us into being stunbots. Outside of Dance, our damage feels horrible. If we go back to one charge, that opens room for us to have our traditional tools like Gouge back, and also deal respectable damage outside of Dance again.
2 Likes
I agree it takes Subtlety too long after fighting and killing a couple of determined enemies to build up to big damage again, (it does feel horrible waiting) for example defending a base. In your face big burst and control is our job. Others can do the sustained damage better.
I just don’t see Blizzard giving us burst, control, and sustained damage. The problem is we don’t have the burst we should. It’s easily fixed if they want to.
IMHO
Buff Backstab.
Backstab has few upsides compared to Sinister Strike and Mutilate. It needs to be buffed.
1 Like
I mean, we sort of had that before Legion. Up through 6.2.3, even outside of Dance, the damage we did wasn’t exactly bad. We still put out enough pressure to let our enemies know we were there.
Obviously Sub’s sustained wasn’t as high as Mut or Combat’s back then, but it was better than what we have now.
2 Likes
It seems like Ion is not going to let Rogues be what they once were.
I would be happy with Massive Soul Shattering Burst from Stealth, with class defining Control. So Devastating, when the player was doing the corpse walk he whispered, “I’m scared, I wish my mother was here to hug me.”
2 Likes