Don’t get me wrong.
I like Assassination
I like Outlaw
But my heart lies in subtlety. It was bursty and a lot of fun. I enjoyed a lot of it through Legion even.
But right now it’s unplayable. 1 mistake in rotation, and boom, your damage dies. In PvE this is SLIGHTLY more forgiving. But in PvP? Oh no. It’s easier to play the Bleed->Poison->Vanish of Assassination to secure a kill, rather than bash your skull against the wall of Blizz Devs forgetting Subtlety is still a spec rogues can play.
So. I ask more experienced rogues.
Class Fantasy wise, What is the difference between Subtlety and the other two rogue specs? Are there any changes you’d apply aside from basic buffs/nerfs? Right now the spec is bleeding, and Blizzard isn’t doing much besides wait for their arena tourny to pass. They can’t change the meta now, and I understand that.
But what ideas would you throw out there? Rework, or rebuff?
I’ve heard that it is getting major changes for 9.0 AKA next expansion.
Don’t expect blizzard to do anything this expansion in regards to subtlety. They are, as usual, incompetent at designing anything good nowadays.
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Crazy idea, make subtley 2h! You would be a ninja in the shadows…
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Sub is gear dependent. It always is. Cant expect to run around and pve things down like assassination with subtlety and win or kill anything by yourself or collectively.
Tier three essences and the right gear make a huge difference. Just because some streamer does it or says it, it doesnt make it good per se. Try things out for yourself. The first wow forums used to be filled with theory crafting, this third iteration is just filled with parrots of streamers.
Agreed.
I’ve never tried the spec, and only once did I ever see a sub rogue in any content. Way back when I was doing heroic BoD, a guildie brought his sub rogue for first boss, and just… wrecked everyone on that fight. This was after the Zul nerf. That dude had like, 35k overall for that fight. It was insane. More than anyone else by a decent margin, and considerably more than I or the assassination rogue did on that fight. I remember being in awe of it and thinking “Holy crap, I’ve gotta try sub…” I mean, I didn’t. But… it was pretty cool to see. Not sure what kind of viability it has on other raid fights, because I have no idea how it plays and have never seen one.
I’m sure that’s not typical. The guy in question was absolutely sick at every class he played, but it certainly made me realize that with the right player, and the right gear, sub can still do some crazy stuff.
as of right now as a sub main since cata… sub SUCKS. very low burst. basically USELESS in pvp. blizz needs to fix it immediately. make burst great again. 20-25k 5cp evicerates at 80-100% mastery is a big blizz fail! they suck.
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I personally liked sub initially in BFA. Aside from the early expansion AoE cheese for buffing ST to ridiculous amounts I thought it was a good spec. They got rid of the little things that made the spec harder to play while still maintaining more complexity than Sin or Combat. I just did a RF and saw a sub Rogue with better gear than me do 40% less than damage. IMO, all you have to do is look at Demon Hunters and their success as a DPS. They’re successful because they’re new and fit the vision Blizz has for the future of the game.
You look at the majority of classes that have gotten overhauls the last few expansion and look at where they are now. Who’s topping damage meters? Who’s dominating the brackets? Not Sub Rogues. Sub Rogues have a very antiquated toolkit, which for the longest time was balanced around Preparation, which they no longer have. Too much has been taken away from them in the efforts to homogenize the game. This is most evident with the low skill tiers, where poor mechanics and decision making are punished without mercy. Versus those same players switching to Sin, which is much easier to play and they immediately become better players.
Sub is, I think, the only remaining spec in the game to not receive a real rework. They’ve been gutted and received very little in compensation, which is why it’s not very good. Certainly, we could say they nerfed this and that, but DHs get nerfed and they’re doing just fine. Why? Because they check all the boxes Blizzard has for creating something successful. It comes down to a lack of modern fundamentals.
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Sub has been my go-to spec for a couple of years now, and it feels worse than it ever has. Every now and then I’ll get a nice evis crit but it doesn’t make up for the fact that my damage sucks for the rest of the rotation.
Admittedly my gear might be bad right now, so I’ll have to test the waters again when I get up to 430. But in the meantime I don’t think I have any choice but to go assassination.
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You really can’t justify playing Subtlety atm. The damage is so low in comparison to Sin it makes zero sense to play it. Even Outlaw is outperforming Sub in single target fights. Sure, they have SOME representation in raids, but overall everyone is either Combat or Sin. It is, IMO, hands down the worst spec in the game atm. It is definitely the least played, one of the lowest DPS, has a high skill cap with very low DPS potential in comparison, and excels at nothing in a raid.
Guess it’s settled then; switching to assassination today 