Sub Rogue's where u at?

Classes Rogue
1

Hey there just wondering is there still sub rogues out there that enjoy playing it? if so i’m a bit bored and would like to know your opinions on them and why you still play it.

3

I really wanted to play Subtlety this expansion. But I’m just not feeling it.

Two things I find frustrating in regards to PvP.

  1. The whole concept is based around burst damage during Showdance. However, the abundance of stuns and cc’s render this almost useless.

  2. When Shadowdance is on cooldown, you rely on Backstab, which is gimped by a positional requirement. No one is going to just stand there with their back to you.

In regards to PvE

  1. For raiding, Subtlety is very unforgiving with target uptime. If you’re not on target you’re not doing damage. And there is alot of movement in Uldir. Popping Shadowdance and 2 seconds later you have to move…feels bad. :frowning:

  2. For world quests and other PvE things, it’s not too bad. But still, you have to face stab mobs.

3 Likes
4

In PVP both BG’s and WPVP you need to be patient and pick your fights. Of course you can’t always do that with so much stealth detection now. But as a rule be patient. If you stick with it Sub can be a lot of fun.

Shadowstep is your friend.

1 Like
5

After some hopping around I’m pretty set on sub for my main. The recent patch brought some nice changes to my azerite traits that help with energy management. This in turn has also changed some of the combo point generation and I’m still figuring it all out since the patch. Overall it’s viable I would say. I do mostly mythic+ and I enjoy it.

1 Like
6

Sub Rogue here. Sim wise it’s simming about 100dps higher for me than Sin. In raids, I’m still getting used to the cool down windows and the new CP generation with the first dance. But solo orb running is invaluable to my guild atm, and it being bursty lines up nicely with add spawns and p3 of ghuun.

M+ would be nicer if Replicating Shadows procced more, and outlaw with Keep Your Wits is sooooo strong. But these are <15 key experience so your mileage may vary.

In PvP you should look up Pikaboos VOD from 12/19. He plays 2s with an arcane mage and the burst/control looks good. Although he did admit that sin is still better in every aspect.

7

How do you solo orb run as sub? I tried it the other day and shadow step is very disorienting because it teleports you behind the target and each blood faces a different direction it seems. I could only get as close as 1-2 bloods away.

8

Warlock gate needed of course, but gate, vanish shadow strike to the furthest add you can get, shadow step, shadow step. It does take a bit of getting used to, but if you don’t play with super high sensitivity you can do a 180 turn pretty reliably. Also goblins and void elves can jump/teleport instead of having to use vanish/ss

9

in PvP it’s actually not as trash as I thought, use 2 Battlefield Focus traits and 1 First Dance trait. I’ve been using the Deeper Stratagem with DfA build - pretty fun but overall Sub is still pretty weak compared to the other 2 Rogue specs

1 Like
10

I switch between sub and sin all the time. I generally play sub on fast boss fights or ones with critical burst windows. Though I will say I like that Sin has much less dramatic peaks and valleys than sub. It’s always frustrating doing 35k dps for 30 seconds, then 10k dps for the next two minutes.

11

ahh I always forget about shadowstep’s teleport since I rarely cast it from a distance.

12

Where else would you cast it? That’s the entire purpose of it.

1 Like
13

I dun goofed - I meant shadowstrikes teleport. My bad.

14

The best thing you can do is get out there and use it.

One example is Demon Hunter EFC who gets in a place others can’t get to. You can Shadowstep to him and give him some Rogue love. Rogues can give dozens and dozens of examples.

Probably the most useful macro for me is the mouseover shadowstep. Useful for things like chasing an EFC, just mouseover-shadowtep you are on him and can decide what to do next, CC or attack.
#showtooltip
/cast [@mouseover,exists] ShadowStep; ShadowStep

Good Luck

15

/waves

I’ve played rogue on and off over the years since Cata and have always been Sub. This is the first expac I remember it being, ahem, subpar compared to the other specs in both PVP and PVE. I’ve tried Sin but didn’t like it at all. Guess I’m too used to Sub as I tend to only play 1 spec per class. I’ll continue playing Sub and hope Blizz eventually fixes it.

2 Likes
16

In the graveyard.

17

I’m playing sub and will stay with it, but I’d like to know what builds are you guys using for PvP. I’m settled with a Nightstalker + Enveloping shadows build. It has a very decent Shadow dance cooldown recovery for the 3% damage loss.

18

When I play sub I kind of “swap” around with my builds. I truly believe that running Dark Shadow, Master, and subterfuge is the best for sub, especially when you have 1 first dance trait and 2 battlefield focus. However I play around with Shadowy Duel a lot, and DfA.

Shadowy Duel is fun when you’re going for 1v2s, or just in arenas in general - especially as double dps since it’s just insane for cc, even allowing you, or your partner to secure the kill.

DfA can be really fun when you swap out MfD for Deeper Strat big DfAs can be pretty fun to see, and I mean… it’s overall a good talent just less “bursty” in the sense that you aren’t putting out “instant” damage as fast as you would with MfD.

Those are all I really play around with though. That’s probably because I prefer the more “bursty” aspect that was Sub rogue, over the more sustained build that I usually run for pve.