What’s the deal with out lvl 45 row? Why would anyone ever choose Dark Shadow over Enveloping Shadows now?
DS is only an extra 15% damage over ES doubling the cd reduction of shadow dance AND add an additional charge for more burst.
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It only adds 33% more cdr actually.
But yeh its not worth it. Dark shadows needs to add more to be worth it.
Dark shadows needs to be baked into the spec so there can actually be interesting gameplay choices in the talent row. Damage vs Damage is boring imo.
And frankly, enveloping shadows needs to go and be reworked completely. Dance doesn’t need charges. / More cdr makes it into a spam-dance spec which is what we’re trying to move away from.
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It goes from 1 second to 2 seconds per combo point. Not sure how that’s 33%.
Yea the 15% that’s baked into shadow dance is nice but it seems like they have no clue what they’re doing. It’s pretty obvious since they turned premed into an abomination and made it a talent.
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Enveloping Shadows needs to be removed entirely. This two-charge Shadow Dance system has always been atrocious. Blizz said they were going to bring Dance back to one charge, so I’m holding out hope that they delete that troublesome talent.
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completely agree
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Its baseline 2 seconds per and goes to 3.
Shadow dance only having 1 charge feels slow af. Spamming weak backstabs feels bad
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Is that on the beta or something? I’m on the PTR and it’s baseline 1 second
I would love it if they changed that row entirely to be honest. Well a few rows.
I will stick on topic first with the 45 row talent.
Enveloping shadows should be changed. Shadow dance needs to be a 1 charge cd to make it feel impactful. I would like this talent to modify our other abilities. Maybe make backstab/gloomblade hit harder ect? or something like that, or honestly, GIVE US HEMO. Remove the new premed, replace with hemo. Have the new talent for enveloping shadows do something to interact with hemo and backstab/gloomblade.
Dark Shadow should be replaced. In order to not make Shadow dance too OP, I would only make it go up to 20 percent damage while in dance baseline, and have this talent replaced with something else. Since they are pushing the shadow theme with conduits, it be cool to have a talent that made our combo point generators also do part shadow damage if they crit as a dot or something. (just throwing ideas out)
Alacrity just doesn’t fit for sub and I honestly hate this talent in general for all 3 specs. It is boring. Please have this replaced. I would love to see this talent changed to affect Slice and Dice in some way unique to each spec.
Row 40 has 1 talent that needs to go and that is night terrors. We already get a 50 percent slow with crippling poison. This row all deals with cheap shot or stuns. I would like the old premed to replace this talent.
So that would leave row 15 with weapon master, hemo, or gloomblade.
25 30 and 35 unchanged,
row 40 have night terrors replaced with the old premed,
row 45 with a bunch of new and fun talents,
and the final row unchaned.
(it be cool if we had a row 60… even if it was just a covenant based row)
I’d like to see secret technique changed as well to make it more of a cool down skill, but not sure how to change it.
What yall think?
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i was on the PTR and was testing Enveloping Shadows it felt grossly over powered. the up time i had on shadow dance was insane i could almost refill the charge during the shadow dance window
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they honestly need to remove that talent imo. They wanted shadow dance back to 1. Then why even have this talent? I am hoping they are not done with things yet, but time is becoming very very short
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I am about to get flamed but, here it goes any way.
Backstab is garbage because shadow dance exists in the first place.
Shadow dance was a nice powerful talent in Wrath that made sub actually valuable to go 51 deep in back then, but overall I feel like the shadow dance ability as much as I love it, well it was a mistake because it forced Blizzard to move damage from base abilities because dance is so powerful.
Dance did 3 things, nerfed Backstab and Ambush, and eviscerate basically forever, and we rogues were as a class better off without Dance.
Yes I know, Blasphemy!
Drag out your cross and some nails because I’m not backing down on this.
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I actually agree partly on this.
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I mean… I love dance, but its kinda obvious what a balancing nightmare it really is.
Similar to other classes that had cd’s introduced. Warlock comes to mind. Aff dots were weakened due to dark glare etc
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Yeah, its sad actually. Because while you are waiting on CD’s you basically play pattycake with the enemy in the form of CC and pillaring until you have Dance then you do your thing.
In PVE its similar, stack all your offensive damage into dance because that’s when you do damage, and for the rest of the fight duration outside of dance… slap and tickle.
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Isn’t Adrenaline and Blade Flurry the same way but since vanilla though? Or Combustion for Fire Mage? I’m sure other classes have cooldowns as well.
Same with defensives in PvP. You’re way more durable and survivable (or slippery!) if you have your trinket, Cloak, Vanish, or Evasion up.
I personally like cooldowns. Having a turbocharge button is fun, and it makes pvp more interesting.
You should be able to function as a class when your cooldowns are down as well though.
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I can’t believe it took them 4 months just to put premed as the first talent… such a slap on the face.
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And not even the real premed, a shallow husk of it’s former self.
What a farce.
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