Just read the new notes from the devs today. Unless im missing something, it looks like they didnt change anything for rogues.
They didnt put it in the âOfficialâ patch notes. It was apart of tuning though
Rogue
-
Subtlety
- Dark Shadow effectiveness reduced by 20% in PvP combat.
- Danse Macabre effectiveness reduced by 33% in PvP combat.
- Perforated Veins effectiveness reduced by 25% in PvP combat.
- Gloomblade damage increased by 20% in PvP combat.
- Backstab damage increased by 20% in PvP combat.
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Well thats some straight up BS. Thanks for the info though.
Yep. Lower our CC. Lower our damage. Lower our damage. Lower our energy regen. We now have 6 seconds per minute to do any form of damage as Sub and if we get ccâed like at all then it ruins an entire go.
All i can say is i hope our blindâs CD gets reduced because a 2 minute CD on a 5 second single target CC is ridiculous.
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Thats crazy because ive noticed any player with 5 IQ will save their dispels and CC for us. Then we just get destroyed. I know im low end, casual, non glad type of player. But it still sucks.
Just wrapped my head around the 2 min cool down for a 5 sec CCâŚwth.
Yep. if i blow Dance in the opener, then i either 1) dont do enough to critical them, 2) have to use shadow blades with shadow dance which prompts them to use defensives/ccâs which ruins the go, or 3) have to use part of my dance to land CCâs which effectively kills my go.
Really trying to see what the best strat is with how little of uptime we have besides trying to make them waste their go launching -some- CC and waiting for them to drop half health, but that might be what i have to aim for. Iâm not the best either, definitely still learning some things, but its getting rough when zugzugs have 30+ seconds of uptime to launch cc and W keying into their target
Well looks like ill be playing sin from here on out. It really sucks cause i was just getting into sub.
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Blizz u suckâŚ
That is all
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I agree. Also you name is outstanding.
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Rating and titles are simply that, just bragging stuff for people. 2s , 3s and shuffle everyone has to pull their weight.
You recognize what people do and that makes you a good rogue as is my man.
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Team : who do you want to go rogue?
Me: hunter id say
(Thinking in my head, depends if he kites well, traps / ccs me, what team mates do, do my team mates cc at all? Blah blah and gates open)
Lots of variables where most of the time I just adapt and end up killing someone else such as the healer instead because class X doesnât cc at all.
Had a mage last night crying âcan we kill anything?â â> broke 3 gouges , broke 2 blinds , polymorphed maybe 3x an entire round, wouldnât swap targets or cc out of mine andif I started nuking a healer because of team mates being on DR or if i was feared for the 12,000 time into an axe toss and mortal coil (they will cc us every time and ignore everyone else.
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The only fools here are us believing in anything good for our class will come instead of gimmicks every expansion.
No hm lets give them better ways to sustain and chain together these cool things instead of bringing in SL that are NOT iconic rogue things.
Expose armor should have came back and actual deadly throw in the class tree as choices, master of subtlety should have been there not danse macabre except higher up as that isnât a solid end talent regardless.
Side thought boys:
Move symbols damage to be applied like SV was from hemo since they wonât give hemo back. Id gladly take a talent . Perforated veins is perfect for that â your backstabs apply a hemorrhaging veins effect causing the target to take 10-15% increased damage.
This way - symbols can just be for energy regen and eff that ability anyway.
Bring back hemo and SV attached to it
Make backstab hurt
Improve FW and the burst spike will be way better and we avoid this crap again
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Its even better when they run with you when youâre trying to open with a sap, or when you DO get a sap off, they dont want to open directly after and fuss because âyouâre wasting DRâs if youâre not going to openâ yeah buddy let me sap and open up while yall play your gameboys in the back
I do agree is like every game is playing it by ear (trying to start off sapping their heals 3x then going with a stun (which im considering changing out a stratem for MFD) or if i see my team is too busy zugzuging and flying into battle with their supercharged horses) then i let them open and hang back for a sec to see what i need to do
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After playing a bit on 10.0.7.
the backstab buffs are poop because they donât intend on FW being strong ever again (most likely) BUT 20% to gloom does feel pretty good and I can appreciate that. If they threw a litttttle bit more into it that would feel very good, Iâve never been a fan of Danse Macabre but for those who want everything in dance thatâs cool. They really should have just touched stuff like Danse Macabre and tuned down Technique but I guess they went at this approach so people who dig that tom foolery arenât saying âthatâs not fairrrrâ
Still would like to see a little eviscerate buff but def had to change quite a few talents out to round out the tunings. Kinda made something that works without âeverythingâ into dance and works more on extending other things. Love tea giving a little jolt and Iâve tried messing around w other stuff but this one fits me best and keeps me rolling.
p.s. retribution paladins definitely heal a lot and hurt a lot now too jimminy cricket. MM and warlocks def seem to be hitting a good bit harder. Tracking new stuff they got Divine Arbiter slams hard and getting used to that new Retribution Aura. I donât think they are ridiculous just we need to be able to adapt again.
Dance now comes to 24% in pvp doesnât feel great but it isnât like oh mah gaw itâs crap. I guess their intent was for people who want to roll with Danse Macabre to invest into 2/2 improved dance so it takes a little more to get off a giant technique or something. I ainât a fan of all that but whatever people dig I suppose.
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Been play on and off today and the paladins are allllll over the BGâs today. But over all it still feels good to go for sub from what I can tell.
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Agreed, all they did really is make you decide. If you want âall inâ you gotta get 2/2 dance now and it âevens outâ without being ridiculous.
edit: Itâs not Subtlety either way and the buff didnât do too much.
- I prefer more rounded out damage and i do enjoy the gloom buff instead of ignoring feedback. Still needs more punch though and its nuts to look at class dev every week and nothing for Subtlety is noted. ever.
If people want a true evisc build they gotta drop everything on the left and pretty much all in evisc now secret strategem x2. ( doesnât feel great and isnât cool)
The cc reduction is fair, gotta think a little more and it kinda encourages us to kidney our actual kill targets now and commit more globals to damage instead.
- now we arenât great in dance or out of it so thatâs like BFA when our agility was trashed by 20% in pvp and 15% mastery or some crap like that.
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The nerf is beyond noticeable subâs burst is significantly gutted.
Survivability is really low sub can easily be trained. The cd attrition is not in the rogues favour.
Spec has no sustained damage completely revolves around dance windows which was hit really hard and already is easily countered via CC.
Eviscerate still hits so low for a finisher
So many other melee specs have high burst, way better sustained and are way more durable.
They systematically want to target burst and cc then they introduce over tuned outliers like the new Ret changes âŚ
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Agreed, has to get better, we rogues are here to smoke the primary target.
Pve focused people got what they wanted spamming black powder and secret nonsense to look cool for aoe. Leave that crap alone for casters.
Too busy trying to make everyone good at everything since the rework.
Improving FW and putting actual sustained into our kit is really the only direction since CC is out the window and itâs illegal to smoke jokers in a kidney shot now
No reason backstab shouldnt be doing 35k hits w/o stacking silly buffs
No reason eviscerate shouldnt be doing around 80k physical (not shadow nonsense)
It appears time is spent figuring out how to give us silly stuff rather than actual abilities.
Did some shuffle today and just see Ww/ dh/ ret/ uh/ frost dk doing whatever they want and memeâing about zugging and they donât cc jack other than the rogue every match but canât score a kill on their own or do dumb crap like fight 2 rets and just die
all I give a crap about is our base kit being solid.
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Created a thread in the 10.1 PTR forums:
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/sub-rogue-discussion/1553122
We need to be vocal since that is when they are nerfing CC/Crit on top of the fact that sub burst just got gutted and the spec already canât stand toe to toe with anything. Has to burst in CC windows (again both nerfed).
Hopefully they action some changes for 10.1 readjust Subâs damage profile and improve its overall drurability:
Damage:
- Eviscerate buffed
- Backstab buffed
- Shadowblades gone
- Shadow Dance turned into the specs dps cooldwon (removed from sin/outlaw). Similar to CS/Wings for Arms/Ret
- Damage outside of damage CD adjusted buffed accordingly so we can still do damage outside these windows.
- Symbols should just be removed and baked into shadow dance
- Synergy with rotation needs to be improved too much random RNG variance and maintenance buffs.
- Make Secret Tech a stealth only ability thus making it functionally only useable during shadow dance. This would reduce its overall % of total damage but could still be used as a powerful burst ability during our dance windows (again now only 1 charge capped at 45 seconds CD)
Durability:
- If the spec is going to retain its burst/cc hit and run playstyle then its burst in the DPS windows needs to be tuned accordingly to be higher then other specs that are more durable and have much higher sustained ST and cleave.
- With the recent nerfs now most melee specs not only have higher burst, better sustained they also are more durable
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Subtlety was neutered on July 19, 2016 when Legion prepatch dropped.
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