So recently after the nerfs, I’ve been searching for ways to increase sub-rogue dps. Long story short, using Flagellation along with Thistle Tea, I can crank my Mastery up to around 150%. Along with other talents and the such on the pvp dummy I can get the tool tip of Rupture on the enemy to read ~“10K Dmg every 1.8 sec” HOWEVER when watching the floating dmg pop up or even in my dmg counter, The dmg comes nowhere close to this amount, around 4-6k each tick is all that will pop up.
Am I missing something? and also should that damage remain constant throughout the whole spell? cause it also seems to drop throughout the duration.
Edit: Also Ive seen the DMG INCREASE after buffs and dance ends, like earlier today it went from 11k (was only ticking for 5k) down to 2k(would tick for the exact amount), Back up to around 4500 or so…
Think of dance and the modifiers as a temporary jump for 6-8 sec on a curvilinear path. As the peak of dance and other stuff increases so does the damage, when you’re out of gas the curve drops and it doesn’t snap shot or freeze that damage.
The only thing that buffs it from then is the 8% 8sec buffs of deeper daggers , static 5% from veiled touch, and dark brew being a static 10%.
After dance ends, damage is crap until next dance.
Which brings me to the point of *revert us to WOD , bring back fat backstabs without dance and filthy eviscerates with only hemo, and sanguinary veins.
Even during the dance and buffs, I’m not seeing the high dmg. Neither in combat log or dmg meters… Like itll say 12k dmg every so often, but NEVER amount to that…
Working as intended, our class is gimmicky dude. Wish it utilized all parts to be successful bit that is the joy of the dance spam. No one knows why.
Pretty much a giant parabola that starts at trash rises to less trash then sky rockets into hell as trash while other classes hit harder while making hot pockets in their microwave with 1 hand.
Subtlety is lost since legion.
It’s a casino style RNG on things “can crit” and based off enchants and other things that “could” do better but instead heavily dependent on external things and such.
Rogues were the last to be developed and no one cares, more news at 11.
Do you normally add unrelated comments of little value? The ‘high ends mastery’ is not the issue. I doubt explaining it to you again will do little anyway…
I did not link any guides, those websites simply track statistics via the wow armory.
Murlok likes to headline “guide” for SEO purposes I suppose. But all it displays is the aggregate info on the top 50 ranked players of a spec in a pvp category.
I know the quality isn’t so great but could ya see whats going on? With no buffs the Dot is supposed to be ticking for 12k, and it’s really pushing out ~5k… This is so frustrating. It must just be crap coding? IDK
Simply because no one cares about rogues. Why fix 1 class when there are others who do not operate like it? - That’s the reality of it, anytime we are effective at murdering, people have an issue with it.
Revert us to WoD rogue, no more farming back dance and all the silly stuff they added to make dance cool.
Damage as Subtlety to make this ferris wheel “work” is probably calculated like this:
Dark Shadow - 30%
Dance Macabre - 4% per stack for an average of 5 stacks let’s say → - 20% damage
Shadow Blades - 50%
Veil Touched - 5% for all shadow
Rotten - 30% for backstab and ambush
Perforated Veins - 40%
Symbols - another 10%
Deeper Daggers is odd, probably something based off Shadowed finishers where if Eviscerate = 1 and SF = .40 (w/o veiled touch) then it brings the shadow part up to 1.40 + 16% for 1.56 which is still poorly governed by a very weak FW. To adjust those that talent down into Finality see a “30%” buff which is more like a couple K added onto the tooltip.
TLDR: Subtlety is filled with gimmicks, picking either side of the tree leaves part of the kit wanting at most times and all of your damage is packed into CDs while other classes goof off while you’re waiting for a 6-8 second window of a once impactful CD to do anything meaningful.
Improvements come from making FW a lot better, bringing back 1 min dance with no cdr, buffing baseline abilities to do their job instead of playing a mini game in your small mediocre dance window, getting rid of silly stuff like reprimand that further complicates tuning as well as garbage technique.
Technique’s existence is why Eviscerate absolutely sucks no matter how you talent, get rid of that too.
Bring back WoD / Cata Subtlety. No other work around that, done being balanced around burst donkey nonsense where you are overly reliant on team mates to do anything effective.
Mastery has always been a priority as well since it’s inception. That was the only way to make eviscerate hit hard outside of agility stacking + resilience / versatility.
Versatility will not make your damage on eviscerate scale higher as much as Mastery. In combination both do well but it is all on a curvilnear path with DRs at 40% and up.
First off in PvP sub works off of stun windows still. It is not an RNG based yahtzee spec except when you spec one shots which is pointless in most situations outside of Arena.
Second, mastery for sub still works the way it has since at least 9.0 and if you have ever had a high mastery gear set since then… well i dont have to tell you the difference. Mastery per stat point ends up being three times more dmg on your finishers than versatility. (IE more burst dmg… three times more on your most used finisher.)
Versatility dmg is spread out over all of your dmg moves and consequently is less bursty and more even and also has the consequence of being less dmg unless you play a one shot sub spec. In that case its better because sub mastery only buffs finishers. (IE PVP gear.)
Third sub has always been gear reliant with the caveat being you have a lot of CD’s to trade to stay alive. I just leveled this rogue and it feels terrible in lower lvls taking away the end of bracket fun you normally have even if you didn’t have the best gear. Reason being: BASE DMG OF EVERYTHING IS LOW. The dmg math is primarily gear now.
In 20 ilvls of the pvp gear agi on just one piece 50+ pts in main stat. That extra mastery stacking if you havent optimized for sub mastery before, makes every evisc like a hot knife through butter and every black powder a nuclear warhead. Which is what you want your rogue to feel like. On demand dmg with each move, not passive white hits and dots ticking everywhere.
Supplement with some high mastery pve gear and your dmg will feel like you want it to and be closer to the on demand burst dmg you expect.
Lastly big burst is also about stacking buffs with sub in this iteration especially. The more you can blades > symbols > cold blood etc. etc. all at once, the better results you will have.
AND the more you can be in shadowdance the more you profit meaning its about building and spending combo points as fast as possible to lower your shadowdance CD. Keep that in mind as you spec and come up with a playstyle that builds combo points and spends them in the fastest possible fashion.
GLHF, QUE/queue your rogues not alts. Learn and practice how the class works and it will reward you with being had to beat in most situations IF you have enough brain power.
Rogue needs to be more of a threat instead of waiting on DRs if we are to survive.
Assassination needs actual envenom damage and customizable kit. Too much emphasis on dots and not enough envenom. Kit needs to be opened up like back in the day.
Combat needs harder strikes and actual dispatch hits, not waiting on casino rolls. Killing Spree needs to be impactful where people feel it, instead of looking like a kid hyped up on halloween candy.
Subtlety needs less dance and more focused FW with supporting backstab + hemorrhage + eviscerates by wod or cata and sanguinary vein in between time instead of dance donkey nonsense we turned into from legion forward.
Reverting all 3 to wod design is the best blueprint they have moving forward and rogue should be a big priority in doing that. Remove the gimmicks and stop creating dependencies that are nightmares for tuning / coding , player sanity and the poor jokers having to read all of that on the dev end.
So, It seems 10.1 is much ‘closer’ at matching the correct damage the tooltip’t debuff claims… However, the dot ticking for 8K dmg is only critting for 12k. I thought crit strikes are supposed to be 200% dmg not this nonsense 150%… Okay wow hates this class, hands down.