He’s the 7th highest rogue not 2nd
It isn’t unplayable. It just isn’t good. If he logged on his feral his team would be even higher.
He also plays with the best disc priest in America and one of the best mages of all time when there’s only 2 other real teams actively queueing at the top of the ladder.
I like that there is almost no support for you here. Duel was almost useless at high ratings and punished players at low ratings. You don’t need to do good constant damage because you can do 100-0 before stunning the whole team and the only thing that can stop it is PRE def cd, hey rogues have you used pre def cd lately? Every def button = bubble for you.
Only 2 above him are the same person on the same bnet.
Again nobody is defending Shadowy Duel. There are no rogues stunning the whole team and 100-0 any good teams. You’re either playing at sub 1500 for this to be happening or the rogue had a lot of help from some massive dps class while the enemy team uses nothing. Yes Rogues have to pre defensive almost all of the time. A big part of the rogue defensive toolkit is Feint which has to be used before you’re stunned and blown up.
It’s fine if shadowy duel is removed however as i’ve stated a few different times. WITH shadowy duel Sub is underperforming. Again it’s not a wide margin but overall it is competing for one of the worst melee dps spot currently. Once Shadowy duel is removed this Competing for the worst melee dps spot evolves into it is the worst melee dps if nothing else is done.
My suggestion is to simply tune the damage profile to where it isn’t solely reliant on Shadow dance to do damage. The damage needs to be better outside of Shadow dance so the class can literally play the game outside of this cooldown. If you don’t know how sub rogue works then you don’t understand the problem. Shutting down Shadow dance means you shut down the ability to get more shadow dances as finishers reduce the cooldown of shadow dance. Within Shadow dance our energy and combo point generation is much better so we can literally get another dance very shortly after if a team does nothing to shut them down(low ratings). As you can imagine the higher you get the better people are at completely destroying any shadow dances and thus making sub rogue a detriment to have on your team.
Again you are likely low ratings where people do not shut down dance so i can understand the frustration from your point of view but this is the opposite situation the further you climb.
Him being a certain rating on the ladder still doesn’t prove or disprove ur point tho.
PALAMOUR? Ye, he’s the goat. I agree.
Schizobuddy actually having the most balanced takes on the forums tho.
Here’s a counter argument: if you don’t want your SD to be stoped, your partners should help you with this. Actually, this is the case everywhere, but you are used to doing a solo game through a smoke and a duel and begging your partners not to ruin diminishing returns.
If you don’t like this gameplay, play as the assa. Otherwise, the sub will lose its uniqueness or become OP.
I think sub is definitely undertuned atm, but it’s also INSANELY hard to balance.
I think the best way to buff sub rogue would be to give it some mechanic similar to nightblade where it does more damage to targets based on a high-cp bleed you apply to reward it for playing in, and make its damage similar to what it does now without it.
If you play the game, you do more damage. If you don’t and just run for DRs, you don’t have lethal kill pressure without major cds.
Not only that but sub rogues are known for trinketing the first cc and cloak evasion offensively. What other spec can just throw their defensives like that and not be punished?
Ret paladin.
If you cloak and evasion offensively why can’t they be punished? MOST sub rogues only have 1 vanish so if they’re blowing trinket/cloak and vanish offensively then they can die easily depending on what you’re facing(which if you’re blowing evasion it’s probably some sort of melee at least).
Again I am not at all mad about shadowy duel(in fact I’m glad because I actually have caught myself forgetting to refocus after duel and taking precious gcds to realize it since duel drops your focus lol). All I am saying is Once it’s gone, what is sub going to get that is much less annoying for people to make up for the fact that with it they’re sub par.
As an example one less pvp talent in shadowy duel. New talent could read something like this(all just quick off the top of my head) Execution Expert-PVP Talent: Abilities that spend combo points outside of shadow dance gain modifiers as if shadow dance were active.
This would not increase damage in our shadow dance at all however it would give us a bit of a punch outside of dance when we can use it. Right now our energy is atrocious outside of shadow dance so this isn’t something that can be spammed as we generally have to wait for energy to build combo points up which takes quite a while to get max combo points if you do not have your 3 min cd shadow blades up
So you got caught, and you still point your finger at the experience of people, the CD of shadow blades is 1.5m.
Got caught with what exactly? I’m not pointing fingers at the experience of people I am saying what is factually true about Sub Rogue. They are strong low ratings(Just like any class is with an experienced player) but are underperforming compared to other classes 2k+. This again doesn’t mean people can’t excel with sub rogue just as any class. My point was they are the lowest melee dps above 2400 and will also LOSE a LARGE ability in a month. There are almost as many blood DKs above 2400 as sub rogues.
I love how everyone hated sub for dancing and cheaping the whole team… Then they gave assass the ability to cheap AND garrote the whole team.
Great design.
yea hey buddy u say arms sux but sub is good cuz kalvish but arms has vices
Yeah, Kalvish, Ceralium/Kubzy & Curney can in fact play Sub RMX to r1 range on ladder against 95% non tournament teams.
Sub is busted, for sure.
citation needed
Oh so we’re basing balance on the AWC? Brilliant take. So lock/mage/boomie/and all rogue specs need to get guttered and everyone else gets massive buffs.
No, we’re stating objectively that sub rogue could use a buff to bring it up to being better than “Kalvish running with the best RMX North America has to offer can play it to 2850”. You can nerf outlaw and assa too, fairly sure everyone has said those specs are overtuned.
Zero sub rogues other than Kalvish are in r1 range on NA. Kalvish plays with Curney and Kubzy / ceralium.
Sub should not require the best mage and priest NA has to offer in order to play.
But it really doesn’t. The only reason sub rep is low is because Outlaw and Sin are overtuned. The fact it still has r1 rep proves it is very much a strong spec.
Arms is very similar, it’s not that bad. Fury is just easier and stronger so most people are abusing it instead.
Sub can chill in A tier for a bit. It doesn’t need buffs.