Sub ends in four days, here's my feedback: Am I in the minority?

I get it. Any time somebody asks “Am I the only one”- No, no you’re not. But I am curious if I’m in the minority on this, so I’m gonna share it.

My beef starts with the grind. I returned to this game after some time off and decided to start a new character. Even with the 100% increase in experience, the experience was unfriendly to the point of hostility - being a new or returning player blows. The leveling process is too brief to learn anything if you’re new, but too long to serve as anything other than a frustrating buffer for end game content for returning players. Once you make it to end game, you have to churn through a series of pointless quests just to catch your necklace up - which, in turn, sees you ready to begin doing normal and heroic dungeons so that you may have the privilege of trying to do Mythic 0s with your buddies. After a week or two, depending on time spent, success! You’re finally ready to experience the game at the very lowest of levels. If you’re paying one month at a time, this cost you anywhere between $3.75-7.50. Just, you know, in case you want to measure your experience playing what is essentially a tutorial in dollars rather than time.

Once you’re at 120 and have your mitts on some decent gear, you’ve earned the privilege of doing a mess of daily and weekly quests seemingly engineered solely to keep you logging in day to day for fear of missing out on the arms race that is gear and ever-less-valuable gold.

However, there is a tragic and worse part of this. If you wish to play the game with an Allied race, you must farm reputation and grind through quests. This is an additional time wall placed between you and the game at its most basic - the literal level one experience of what you’re paying for - for no real reason other than to keep you playing. This was something I found incredibly frustrating, because even completing all the quests in a region only brings you up to Revered.

In addition to this repetitive grind for reputations, experience, and gear, I was stuck dealing with the fact that, without grinding reputations in the past, you’re hosed as far as flying in various expansions go. Getting your flight in a current expansion doesn’t matter; you have to go back and get it for content that has no relevance if you want to expedite the leveling of future characters. So that was a fun discovery.

Tying off my rant on the grind, it’s gated behind RNG. No longer can I farm honor or gold and buy myself some decent gear - no, now, even in BGs, I must hope like some kind of slack jawed idiot with a lottery ticket that I’m going to get a decent item at the end of it.

To recap this section: It’s a bland, featureless grind to get the allied races. It’s a grind to get to 120, then another to get gear, and then another just to stay current.

Next up, we’ve got the story. The story has been on a bit of a slide for some time, but it’s recently really just hit valley lows. I’d say peak, but peak kinda infers a high. Anyways, let’s jump all the way back in time to Cataclysm.

Garrosh enters the political scene as a hotheaded youth who is a fit enough commander, but really a capable big-time leader. This was established in Wrath of the Lich King. Okay, great. In Cataclysm, he gets his big break: He’s forced to be Warchief. And he does an okay job, besides his overzealous pro-Horde tendencies.

Enter our next scene and, very abruptly, he becomes Orc Hitler. I mean, the parallel could not have been drawn more clearly. He even starts gassing folks. Apparently, the quest writers in Cataclysm weren’t told where this story was going, so when MoP came around it was a much less cohesive tale than it could’ve been. At least, that’s what I’ve heard.

Fast forward to Warlords of Draenor, and suddenly Frostwolves go from noble savages of a warrior culture to being held to a 21st century Western human morality standard. What was that? I mean, it directly contradicted how they acted in Rise of the Horde, so it’s not like this was always the plan.

Then we spend Legion building Bolvar as DKs, and Sylvanas (notoriously bad at 1v1 combat) comes along and wastes him in about a second. This ties into a trend of wasting characters: either by killing them almost immediately (Vol’jin) or by hamfistedly rushing their progression into villains (Zul, Rastakhan). Other characters get introduced and killed off almost immediately (Rezan). So why grow any level of attachment to any character?

To go with that, the power creep’s gotten out of hand. We’re slaughtering dragon aspects and demons; we’re basically demigods at this point. Better than that, really, since even the demigods didn’t do so hot against the Burning Legion, and we came along and battered the Legion pillar to post. That doesn’t stop us from being delegated absolutely idiotic tasks like “go find food for these people”. Get bent, I kill gods. YOU find food for these people.

The scaling of our opponents is equally ridiculous. In Vanilla WoW, we had a few faction level threats. At best, they’d have been problematic forces in the future; worst case scenario, they could have killed off a faction with great effort and losses. World domination was not a threat. In TBC, we invaded another planet and took some preventative measures against potential future dangers. In Wrath of the Lich King we saved the world from the Lich King and an Old God. In Cataclysm, a world-shattering foe was introduced and threatened not just one, but two dimensions. In Mists of Pandaria, another world level threat was introduced. In Warlords of Draenor, we had to time travel and the threat was on a fourth dimensional scale. In Legion, we jumped to a Thanos-style universal danger. Now we’re back to squabbling with swords made out of metal after we went through space. Neat twist.

Final notes on the weak story: Why are almost all of our major villains corrupted heroes or Old Gods? Why have none been built up over a series of expansions as a growing threat? Even Garrosh started off a good guy before he got very abruptly turned evil. Also, if the story’s gonna be so weak, why do you force me to endure it by giving me a million cutscenes and quests that send me across the room to get expository dialogue from another NPC for no experience?

Finally, the solo experience has been dismal. LFD® and BGs have been dismal, silent affairs where people just keep their head down and try to get through it as quickly as possible. And why wouldn’t they? There’s not only no need to communicate, we’re never gonna see each other again. There’s no sense of community.

Quests are repetitive and boring. You’ve only got the four types: kill, gather, travel, and escort - 120 levels later, I’ve done them all twenty times over minimum and I’m not in a hurry to do them again.

The reward system is bland. Beneath level 120, you get checkpoint bonuses that only serve to show you how far away you are from actually playing the game. At 120, it’s a game of roulette designed seemingly solely to keep you farming the same linear, unexciting dungeons day in and day out.

Now, like any good consumer, I’m voting with my dollar. I bought a month to see if the game was worth coming back to, this was what I left with. I have to wonder how many more people feel this way. I noticed that, a while back, Blizzard stopped posting their subscription numbers. They’d been trending down for a while. I can’t imagine this ceased because WoW was doing so well that they didn’t want to make other companies feel bad.

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aight, well this is quite a bit of a ramble, but to address things more or less in order.
most of the mechanical complaints you have re: leveling are being addressed in shadowlands. yeah its a problem, they know its a problem, they are working on fixing it.

now as for dailies, nothing says you HAVE to do every single daily every single day. in fact its usually a bad idea to try and do that, the amount of rep you get from hitting absolutely every daily is miniscule compared to the emissaries, and those you only need to do every 3 days. if you need the gear from them, just take a quick look when you log in, see if any have an upgrade for you, usually only 2-3 max from what i’ve seen, and then go about your day.

allied races are loosing the rep requirement with shadowlands, want to play one RIGHT NOW then yeah its a bit of a grind, or wait like 6 months and roll one then for zero effort.

flying is also not going to require any reputation with shadowlands (with the exception of BFA, but since thats current content, and since we have a 100% rep boost right now (and darkmoon faire on top of that) you should hit revered with everyone just by finishing the zone quest lines (with the exception of nazjatar and mechagon, but those would take less than a week)

as for buying yourself decent gear, you’ve never been able to buy “decent” gear, you used to be able to buy catchup gear at best… which incidentally you can get basically for free just by doing the 8.3 dailies. beyond that, you can grind for gold to buy BOE’s from the AH ranging all the way up to mythic quality.

as for your lore issues. seems to me more that you just didn’t pay enough attention to what was actually going on, Garrosh’s turn to evil was foreshadowed all the way back in cataclysm and built on through panderia. thats 2 whole expansion of character building, hardly a “sudden change”

as for bolvar vs sylvanas, since when was she bad at 1v1? she single handedly managed to defeat a dreadlord and enslave him. if anything, dueling is kinda her thing, not to mention she doesn’t have the same “honor” holding her back that bolvar did. oh and she’s an ethereal banshee vs a flesh and blood death knight, the fight was rather one sided from the start.

yes, power creep happens, its unfortunate, but very difficult to avoid in a genre like an mmo. what? should we still be stuck clearing gnolls out from the mines near goldshire as our biggest threats? nah, people expect that each threat is going to be greater than the last.

as for big bad villains being built up over a series of expansions, we’ve been seeing ever increasing old god activity ever since vanilla. and now we’ve seen what is effectively the culmination of that build up (including tying in WHY n’zoth is the one we end up facing, largely because we cleared the way for him by weakening the more powerful old gods who otherwise would have stomped him down) so the exact example you used as ‘having no build up’ is actually the perfect example of them building up a threat over decades… you just didn’t pay enough attention.

if you don’t enjoy the game, then fair enough, but most of your issues are either things that are (supposedly) getting fixed next expansion. or are personal issues.

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Yeah, the game is a tragic mess right now where the devs are so out of touch with the reality of their playerbase that it’s no surprise they’re trying to lure people in with predatory FOMO mechanics like the XP and now REP boosts.

The game used to be a wonderful RPG. Now all aspects are literally designed to keep the players playing for as long as possible with no regard for enjoyment or a cohesively designed gaming experience. The game is now designed with profits as the priority, it is designed for shareholders and not the players.

Blizzard should be ashamed of themselves for destroying what was once the greatest MMORPG ever released.

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Nah, not really. Unlocking Essences insta-levels your neck to 50, and it doesn’t take much time to get higher than that. As for gearing, I’m not sure why you’d bother with Normal or Heroic dungeons if you have buddies willing to do M0 with you.

They should just take you to M0 and gear you.

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As a fresh 120, there are quite a few dailies worth doing for a combination of Azerite (the greatest grind mechanic since Artifact Power) and items, as you’re starving for both when you first touch down.

So they understand this was a poor decision, have the power to fix it now, and… Don’t? I don’t understand. This is terrible reasoning.

A week is a subjective amount of time given the amount of hours in a day. How many hours of dedicated gameplay would it take to unlock flying? Could I do it in a week at an hour per day? Two? Three? That said, again: They’ve realized forcing a rep grind is a poor decision, yet choose to leave it in until the expansion? Why? Is the goal to see how many players they can lose, so that the supposed “improvements” will make the game look like it’s making a huge comeback?

Catch-up gear should be what’s available, grind free. I shouldn’t be able to hang with people who’ve been dedicated, but having to grind dailies to get decent 8.3 gear is a joke. You said that we get 2-3 items per daily cycle, yeah? Let’s be optimistic and say we get three every time. There are 14 slots, not counting necklace and cloak (both of which require quests to acquire at any decent level). Assuming that we optimistically get three upgrades per day and, stretching that optimism to the point of absurdity by saying each of those three upgrades go into a different slot, that’s a minimum of four days before I get to play the game at the lowest level. On top of the level grind. That’s taxing me to play the game - if all goes well, I just paid somewhere between $3.75-7.50 to play at the entry level. Which I think is what I said it cost anyways.

Garrosh went from killing somebody for nuking a city in Cataclysm, then turned around and nuked a city in MoP. He goes from wishing Magatha Grimtotem a slow, painful death for poisoning Cairne to deciding to push the plague as a weapon of war. There was no gradual turning of his head - he just kinda… Became evil one day.

Easy question, easy answer. She got wrecked by Arthas twice, dropped that fight to Godfrey and the Gang, and managed to get run out of her own city by Varimathras. Bolvar, on the other hand, faced down Onyxia, nearly died at the Wrathgate, then got brought back by Dragonfire. On top of the dragon magic, he got the Lich King powers. Yet now, against all odds, Sylvanas picked up an effortless W against a power that had been being built for all of Legion and from WotLK. They sacrificed Bolvar to build Sylvanas’ legend. It’s the classic Dragonball Z move: establish a badass by having them take out a different badass. Then she ripped the Lich King helmet in half, despite it being crafted by some pretty top notch demons.

Ad absurdum. WoW Vanilla had a great setting where we were adventurers and mercenaries, but not legends. The biggest threat we fought was at Ahn’Qiraj, and we were part of an army. You can create repeated and believable regional level threats without having to scale at an absurd rate.

Your argument for N’zoth, Yogg-Saron, etc. being “built up” is that C’thun existed and they said Old Gods have existed? It would be one thing if periodically we came up on an island or something and people were insane and we found messages scrawled on the walls, or here and there villages vanished like Roanoke, or things of that nature. Instead, we got told about Old Gods a while ago, and then every expansion they hack together a Lovecraftian name and appearance and say “Hey! This guy’s threatening you now! Do something about it.”

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A new or returning player would never see any of this. The story is not presented in the current game that a leveler plays through.

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The getting to 120 is easy. The hard part is the other stuff, besides gearing.

Neck artifact raising.

Farming essences.

Farming essence upgrades.

Farming cloak upgrades.

It was even easier in legion, with just the arifact weapon and legendarys if you glanced at a treasure chest, blingtron 6000, emissary or invasion boss; with it already being cake, they then added stuff to BUY legendarys for alts!

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To be fair with the way you’re describing problems, I don’t feel you’re a returning player. EIther that or you quit after Vanilla. Because most things you don’t like have existed since TBC in some forms. Rep grinding is nothing new, leveling is the same, the gearing process hasn’t changed much since Legion (but the system as a whole kinda work the same way as before) etc.

I would agree probably more on one point that random bgs are not a good way to gear yourself up, like most pvp right now.

And let’s be honest, only Wotlk story was great.

And there isn’t much to do with questing, my preference is to make it heavy on the storytelling like FF14 does. But that’s not for all players, clearly for a lot of wow players that tried FF14 storytelling it was the biggest thing annoying them.

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I would say that there are a fair amount of players like you and that your opinion is as valid as anyone elses.

Something to consider - someone may have felt the game was golden at classic, for some it is WotLK and some it is Legion. These are all valid views to have, and it is natural that they would want a similar (after all you would want WoW to have the features that make it magical to you).

Problem occurs when people think others are ‘wrong’ for enjoying one expansion over others. Even the WoD actual introduction is really good, but execution was bad (p.s garrosh did nothing wrong and thrall cheated).

My opinion would be that I don’t find the grind very difficult or tedious, I find I get most things from just playing the game despite having commitments most adults have to their work, home and family. I agree with your sentiments in regards to the story - it does appear to be more story to meet the direction of the game rather than game to meet the story.

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My biggest issue with BFAs story, is its the only expansion without narrative cohesion.

Every other expansion, from the point you watch the cinematic to the point you’re facing the final boss, the main theme is well established, you may take detours from that theme during the expansion, but they always connected back.

BFAs theme ended halfway through the expansion, then tacked on two other expansion themes in and crunched them down absurdly to fill in time between Shadowlands.

An amazing an indepth video that goes into this topic further.

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Rep grinding was present in Vanilla, TBC, and WotLK, but weren’t necessary for basic game elements such as playable races. Further, they didn’t gate convenience - they gated mounts, gear that was not needed to play at any effective level, etc. Nowadays, they gate convenient leveling to no real purpose.

Leveling’s for sure not the same, either. In Classic WoW, there’s an element of gameplay where you’re not only getting something every level (a spell, a talent point, etc.) but there’s also a degree of enthusiasm about the dungeon aspect because the rewards you get stay with you for some time and the level design for some of the dungeons was truly exceptional. In TBC, there was the fresh feel of a new expansion - the very first that we got. Then, WotLK was progressing a story that had been being built for quite some time. From there, we went into Cataclysm, where it all kind of tanked and, predictably, the sub count tanked with it. However, they’d introduced progressing zones, so there was some fun new experiences there. After Cataclysm came Mists of Pandaria, which was actually a pretty damn good expansion, and then there was Warlords of Draenor. The leveling experience in that was decent and they introduced zone quests. That was a game changer; after that was Legion, where we had a few new adventures. It’s been a slow, downhill slide, but this is easily the worst it’s been.

And that things are the same as Legion? That was one expansion ago, man. The grind was easily the worst part of that, as well. The AP grinding, the slow slog of leveling from 1-110, it’s all a nightmare.

I would agree that the story arcs for WoW have been trending from bad to worse for quite some time, and that the saving grace of WotLK’s lore was that it was tied to the strong storytelling of WCIII and WCIIITFT.

The easiest thing to do with questing would be to cut down the necessary amount of it, I think. Right now, it serves only as a buffer between entering the game and playing it - but, again, not really enough of one to teach new players how to play. So it’s ultimately just frustrating.

Otherwise, introducing class-specific storylines and quests again might give people some incentive to actually pay attention to what’s going on. From there, I wouldn’t argue with subsequent characters of the same class to be boosted to max level.

Third option, again, time consuming for development, making it so that quests were difficult enough to force players to learn their classes - kiting, chaining crowd control, tanking/ healing/ DPS objectives, etc. wouldn’t be horrible.

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I get your point more with this comment really.

But yea they won’t make leveling “hard” again because they consider it entry level content. Basicly everyone should be able to do it because a bit like you said earlier, they don’t really consider leveling that much of a content. And their solution for next expansion is a very pratical one, since they can’t really make it work in that way might as well get rid of most of it and make you do one expansion basicly for the story and then Shadowlands.

As for allied races at the same time, they never deployed that much races. I feel it would have been fine to make some of them locked. But yes it feels a bit annoying when they are like 50% of the races now and they are all locked. Maybe the scenario to unlock them could have been enough for most them, but that still means having to have a high level character first. But hey atleast they give a boost with the new expansion. My first character was a shaman that I quickly discarded to make a dk xd

As for flying, there’s no way they can really lock in a current expansion behind gold without making it really easy. Atleast for first expansions gold was seen as a rarity, but like we’ve seen in Classic, gold is too easy to get for players that know how the game work. I think they’re also doing the right thing, making it in Shadowlands so from level 30 you can fly in any old expansions just with the training.

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It’s a “grind” because you’re trying to cram over a year’s worth of expansion into a week.

I have all the reputations, gear, allied races, etc. I never grinded any of it. I just played the game, and everything just falls into place that way.

The issue here is your quitting, and therefore putting you in this position. And that’s on you.

And to anyone who says, “Blizzard should bend over backwards to accommodate players who have quit!” I say, why? They’re just going to quit again, no matter what happens.

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Have people who say this actually played Classic?

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“is now” hahahahahahahahahahaha.

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I actually just played through all the content as a fresh 120 that hasn’t done a single piece of 8.0+ content at max level.

It’s a disaster, and there’s absolutely no way they’re keeping any players around that aren’t being spoonfed on a level that a vast majority of players aren’t able to be. They’re actually hurting their player retention with all 4 of these rental systems stacked on eachother, impacting HP, SIGNIFICANTLY impacting DPS/Healing, and impacting their frontline content (Visions).

The game is so unplayable as any character that wasn’t playing through at least 8.2’s first few months - it’s not even worth revisiting until the hard reset of Shadowlands. And that’s going to become painfully clear in the next 3-4 months as players start venturing outside post-quarantine as the pre-pre-patch blues set in. The game will be absolutely empty from July until release of 9.0.

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I don’t agree. I skipped the entirety of 8.2 and had to catch up in 8.3.

The level scaling is an issue. Trying to DPS a bullet sponge isn’t fun… it’s especially not fun when every single thing you fight is now a bullet sponge.

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Do you have a fresh alt? Go give it a shot on one of those.

I played Classic, its a poor imitation of Vanilla which I also played. I would say that is accurate.

I’ve watched the game change, it went from players playing too much because they were enjoying the experience to players playing to much be they needed that sick upgrade to players playing a lot less because thinking about doing the same thing again makes them feel physically ill.

Not everyone. I’ve been leveling up alts because I can do it mindlessly while I watch videos or whatever. I haven’t touched much of 8.3, which was just a reskin of old content anyway. It bores me in less than an hour. Plus I never asked to be the hero of Azeroth… In vanilla I was Ranger who spent a lot of his time hunting Elves in the plague lands and running content with my friends.

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