Sub AOE is weak for M+

Classes Rogue
1

Blizzard give Sub rogues some AOE damage.

BP super weak even when we have 5-8 targets, if it’s against 2-5 we dont Fell doing any dmg at all. The only moment we deal dmg are in the 100% crit 4 sec window of the legendary.

ST is capped at 5 targets and deal less dmg for each additional add??? Why?

Shuriken tornado shouldnt stay in the game anymore.

Every 10+ Key i do i Fell super tired of pressing a Lot of Buttons and deal no damage at all.

Fix this! Bring DFA legion sub back.

Some people Will say Sub is good because of raider io rankings but they are nothing comparing with mages, dks, Hunters, monks and several others AOE.

I really Hope Ppl stack 3 Hunters or 3 Fire mages in mdi maybe this way you Will do something for us.

1 Like
2

get finality lego. I do about 6k average on decent pulls and 10k on big pulls. Maybe you need to look up a guide. You also need to run secret technique and since you have mark of assassin you need to open up with shadowstrike into a SS into a secret technique within 4 secs to get those juicy crits.

1 Like
3

No it’s not.

If you’re having low dps you’re doing it wrong or don’t have a good leggo.

4

Guys could you show me some video about a rogue dpsing more than MM Hunters, Unholy Dk’s, Fire mages, Frost Mages, Boonkin’s in 12 keys +? its not possible to reach the dps of this classes without playing outlaw as a rogue.

If i choose to run ST in a tyranical week the boss will not die. This last line of talents is terrible, ST has reduced damage to additional targets capped at 5 wich make not sense it should be capped at 8 targets like BP.
The BP Damage with 3 targets its almost the same as evicerate.

Have you guys tried to push 11+ keys this week? that’s what i’m talking about. If you show me a SUB rogue dpsing more in overall than those spec’s i commented about i would be glad to see what he is doing.

I usually follow those big d* guys in twich that push 15+ keys and they usually are the last in the overall.

1 Like
5

You would be doing significantly more dps if you had the finality legendary. On bigger pulls, the 25% additional black powder buff would help substantially. Ideally though, Outlaw seems to shine a bit more in mythic+.

2 Likes
6

You’re using a single target spec for mythic plus. You’re not going to have super solid aoe dps.

If you want that then outlaw is a better choice.

3 Likes
7

What i mean is why an MM hunter or a Balance Druid can DPS 5k+ Single and 7k-20k+ AOE every Pull while we have smash our fingers to get 4k+ Single and 4-10k AOE.

You guys really think that the last 2 lines of SUB rogue talents are ok?
THe current state of the spec seems fine to you?
don’t you guys fell that you have to make a choice that other classes doesn’t?

8

Subtlety is hot garbage for Mythic+. It’s an ST spec living in an AoE world. The addition of Black Powder and the buff to Secret Technique were cute additions to the toolkit, but won’t magically allow you to be competitive with the “real” M+ specs like Marks, Fire, Ret, WW and Balance.

The worst part, in my opinion, is that Subtlety’s single-target isn’t even that competitive.

It’s like “Yeah yeah Subt’s an ST spec and M+ is about AoE, but at least you’ll pump on those Tyrannical bosses” when in reality. I’m doing 3-4k on these Tyrannical bosses and I’m getting smashed by Marks (which is also doing great AoE), Affliction, Spriest, Unholy (which is also doing great AoE) and sometimes even Windwalker (which is also doing great AoE).

Doing Mythic+ as Outlaw just feels 100% better. You do twice the trash DPS and about equal (sometimes even more with good RtB) boss DPS as Subtlety. Which begs the question - what is the role of Subtlety? The answer used to be “PvP” but right now it feels like Arms, WW, Balance, Ret, Spriest and Hunter are all dominating that too.

Anyway, to directly answer the question - yes Subtlety AoE is not great. With Mark of the Master Assassin, Deeper Stratagem and Secret Technique I can burst like 12k on a M+ pack but I usually settle in around 5-6k by the end of the pull, and that’s just not competitive with what else is out there. People are saying Finality is the way to go for the 25% additional Black Powder damage which probably contributes more on the higher keys (particularly Fortified weeks) than MotMA.

4 Likes
9

if theres more than 2 mobs literally just spam shuriken storm and black powder. Use your shadow dance and other cd’s for more dmg.

Its that simple.

also highly boring and carpal tunnel inducing.

10

I ussually finish end of dungeon around 4k its respectable enough.

Finished most Bosses in +6 on tyranical on over 5k dps

11

I’ll break it down. Crit lego, stealth, symbols, shuriken storm, shadow dance, black powder, kyrian, shuriken storm, black powder. Can vanish and reopen after symbols is back off cd in longer pulls for more burst crit aoe. Shuriken storm three or more targets, single target less. Keep shadow dance up for 15% damage buff and use symbols. Kyrian increases next combo point consuming ability. Want shuriken storm more for combo point generation then damage due to combo points used reducing shadowdance cd.

Talents:
Premed
Shadow Focus
Deeper Strat
Soothing
Prey on the Weak
Enveloping
Master of Shadows

12

Assassination rogue: Excuse me, are you trolling me ?

13

Subtlety is hot garbage for Mythic+. It’s an ST spec living in an AoE world. The addition of Black Powder and the buff to Secret Technique were cute additions to the toolkit, but won’t magically allow you to be competitive with the “real” M+ specs like Marks, Fire, Ret, WW and Balance.

The worst part, in my opinion, is that Subtlety’s single-target isn’t even that competitive.

It’s like “Yeah yeah Subt’s an ST spec and M+ is about AoE, but at least you’ll pump on those Tyrannical bosses” when in reality. I’m doing 3-4k on these Tyrannical bosses and I’m getting smashed by Marks (which is also doing great AoE), Affliction, Spriest, Unholy (which is also doing great AoE) and sometimes even Windwalker (which is also doing great AoE).

Doing Mythic+ as Outlaw just feels 100% better. You do twice the trash DPS and about equal (sometimes even more with good RtB) boss DPS as Subtlety. Which begs the question - what is the role of Subtlety? The answer used to be “PvP” but right now it feels like Arms, WW, Balance, Ret, Spriest and Hunter are all dominating that too.

Ty God someone know what i’m talking about!

if theres more than 2 mobs literally just spam shuriken storm and black powder. Use your shadow dance and other cd’s for more dmg.

I know the rotation the Damage is not enough compared to Hunter MM , Enhanc Shamans, Fire Mages ETC.

I ussually finish end of dungeon around 4k its respectable enough.
Finished most Bosses in +6 on tyranical on over 5k dps

Yep in a +6 scenario that dps is tottaly good, try a 10-14 key, you will see our dmg drop too hard.

I’ll break it down. Crit lego, stealth, symbols, shuriken storm, shadow dance, black powder, kyrian, shuriken storm, black powder. Can vanish and reopen after symbols is back off cd in longer pulls for more burst crit aoe. Shuriken storm three or more targets, single target less. Keep shadow dance up for 15% damage buff and use symbols. Kyrian increases next combo point consuming ability. Want shuriken storm more for combo point generation then damage due to combo points used reducing shadowdance cd.

i’ve seen the rotation in Icy veins, Ravenholdt Discord, but ty for refreshing my mind! It deal a Ok dmg it’s just not enough compared with other classes.

Assassination rogue: Excuse me, are you trolling me ?

Sub need buff’s Assassination need a Miracle!

1 Like