Stop throwing gear around and rewarding mindless play

[Orctang-area-52 (Orctang)]

@Chrispy-sargeras

Fact- you get this from raids that takes hours. You get the same from a WQ that takes minutes.

Sorry, this is not fact. You can’t get the same item level that I have as a casual heroic raider by doing a few minutes of world quests.

[Phydeaux-windrunner (Phydeaux)]

@Modosh-turalyon

Gear is a carrot on a stick, it motivates the player to play more difficult or more varied content - this is evidenced by things like Warfronts, which I am utterly convinced nobody would do were it not for the high-level gear reward. At most, you’d have a minority of people trying for the genuinely decent mogs…

I agree that it’s a carrot and stick issue, but I don’t agree at all that it motivates people to do content they otherwise would. In fact, Ghostcrawler said in the past that the thought/hope that people would rise to the occasion was patently false.

People do what they want, and if the reward isn’t there for it, they stop doing it.

That’s how it should be too. This is a subscription based game where people are paying real money to play.

@Modosh-turalyon

But really. If they want people to play just for the fun of playing, rather than chasing gear, then they’ve made a huge, huge mistake by gutting classes and general gameplay to the point they have.

I’d like to agree with you here, but I don’t think these issues are related at all. Their pruning for the past 3 expansions has more of a resource limit type of sound to it for me, than a we really think it’s cool. But I could be wrong too.

[Chrispy-sargeras]

Ok let me make sure i am more clear you do (4) world quest. And get you emissary. so 15 mins of world quest.

[Ilarra-turalyon]

@Zoumz-zuljin

he only answer is that you like your free handouts and are ready to pull down people to your level.

When someone has to use insults to make their argument than everyone knows you are desperate and wrong.

[Modosh-turalyon]

The issue of pruning and the issue of gear accquisition are entirely unrelated, yes, I was just saying, if this is the direction they want to take the game design, they’re making a serious oversight.

Basically I was saying, if they’re not willing to make the basic gameplay loop fun, then gearing at the very least should feel satisfying. As it is, it doesn’t.

I don’t know if I agree on the ‘reward should be there, or they’d stop doing it’ angle however. People have proven they’ll do something for even a small, cosmetic reward (Mage Tower, old content in general) - we don’t need to hand out gear just to get people to participate. Creating engaging content is enough.

Part of making some types of content engaging, of course, is making the accquisition of gear fun.

[Zoumz-zuljin (Zoumz)]

I’m only guessing you’re free to rationalize your thoughts if it’s not that.

[Orctang-area-52 (Orctang)]

@Chrispy-sargeras

Ok let me make sure i am more clear you do (4) world quest. And get you emissary. so 15 mins of world quest.

Yeah, still doesn’t work. My alts do them and still don’t have the same item level as my raiding character.

[Chrispy-sargeras]

I gave you a valid argument.

[Rhielle-sentinels (Rhielle)]

@Phydeaux-windrunner

People enjoy different things.

And that’s good. But Heroic raid level gear isn’t necessary for people who just.like doing archaeology and world quests.

@Phydeaux-windrunner

If you think gear makes you good

It does make you good. It’s what ups your DPS/healing/tanking capabilities at level cap. Skill and gear go hand in hand.

@Phydeaux-windrunner

or makes you feel superior to others

No one is asking to feel superior. They’re asking for the correct level of content to reward the correct level of gear.

Coming from someone who used to be a progression raider and who is now a filthy casual… I shouldn’t be 400+ ilevel right now when I don’t do anything except an occasional +4 and a few world quests once or twice a week.

There’s a serious issue with the way gearing works nowadays.

[Chrispy-sargeras]

Wait wait wait. Do your alts get ilvl 400 from from doing those quest and turn in?

[Dedaru-moon-guard (Dedaru)]

@Kydrav-bleeding-hollow

I see in 8.2 that we’re getting vendors with gear that can go up to 430 for WQs…

A few questions:

• Ion said, they were concerned about vendors in PvP because they were afraid people would choose the wrong piece… then you guys add a vendor system for WQs and expect them not to? What? Why not add vendors for PvP at this point too?
• Why are you rewarding skilless/mindless content with 430 ilevel gear?? You guys have made the game feel so dang unrewarding due to high ilevel gear being thrown out all over the place, are you trying to make WQs legit end game content? Why even do heroic raid or push rating below 2100 in PvP if you can just do WQs?

Stop rewarding mindless/skilless play with good gear, it’s unnecessary. Reward players for completing difficult content.

You sound like someone who tells his mom to print out your Recount numbers and put them on the fridge.

[Orctang-area-52 (Orctang)]

@Chrispy-sargeras

Wait wait wait. Do your alts get ilvl 400 from from doing those quest and turn in?

Yes, some of them do. They still aren’t catching my 413 item level on my raiding character.

[Kydrav-bleeding-hollow]

@Dedaru-moon-guard

You sound like someone who tells his mom to print out your Recount numbers and put them on the fridge.

And you sound like someone wants everything in life handed to them because you dont’ want to try at life :^).

[Irisse-maelstrom]

@Argorwal-ysera

Methods highest player for their CoS clear was 419.

Highest player, or highest character? Let’s not forget that 3/4 of their raid were on their shaman alts to cheese the fight - and that they didn’t get the world first for that fight.

@Meriweather-thunderlord

True. I’m close to two people who raid at the very top end of the game…

Their focus is the win. I can’t recall hearing either of them–not once–being concerned with other people’s gear.

That’s because their gear isn’t being threatened by the welfare gear. The only thing they’re being forced to do to keep up is one M+10 per week, if that.

Make the casual vendor sell 450s, and their tune will change.

[Qubert-proudmoore]

@Zoumz-zuljin

It’s still bad game design. You shouldn’t just handout gear that freely that removes the needs/incentives to do any type of progression.

So you dont want to progress in raids and mythic dungeons?

Because of a few rare quests, often weekly’s that drop loot? And that loot is usually based on item level. Making it take sooooo long to get were it drops 400 item level.

Reallly?

[Chrispy-sargeras]

So the fact that someone BIS azerite traits. can drop off doing WQ. Rather then raiding, Where it takes time and skill understanding the fight sense of progression on that character. All of that is out the window due to getting free bees.

[Modosh-turalyon]

I don’t think this is even an issue of having to ‘work’ for gear, more there’s too many ways to get gear that just aren’t fun in the slightest.

Content like WQs are just an investment of time, they really shouldn’t be as rewarding as they are. This is mobile game design.

[Orctang-area-52 (Orctang)]

@Chrispy-sargeras

So the fact that someone BIS azerite piece can drop off doing WQ. Rather then raiding, Where it takes time and skill understanding the fight sense of progression on that character. All of that is out the window due to getting free bees.

Sorry, the BIS azerite pieces either come from the Mythic raid or the Titan Residuum vendor.

[Chrispy-sargeras]

You are dancing around the point. We were talking about heroic gear not mythic. Fixed BIS Traits with same ilvl as HEROIC

[Chaosnachos-bleeding-hollow (Chaosnachos)]

Some try hard nerds trying to claim a resemblance to the old way, but the game is literally dying. You wonder why Blizzard is pandering to the casuals? Here’s a hint. There aren’t enough of you to worry about.