Nah, delete MSV, mostly so we can stop seeing these dumb MSV threads.
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It wouldn’t be a week in hunter forums without this topic coming up.
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a fourth spec would be more desirable because it would allow the specs to diversify properly instead of being a hodgepodge abomination of former survival mechanics married to the modern melee hunter
i really liked the design and flow of it in legion but because it was a higher than average skill floor with an extreme ceiling to do even almost decent dps, it was unpopular, and it was given mostly ranged abilities to remarry it to a hunter’s scheme of knowing how to use ranged weapons
but right now msurv plays like an unholy abomination of BM with some melee thrown in, making it fairly indistinct instead of standing as it’s own spec
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Good thing SV isn’t using things like Kill Command then /s
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Well, you knew it had Explosive Shot at least. But yeah…
RSV = ranged Survival
Contrary to semi-popular opinion, this doesn’t mean just “current Survival, but ranged”. As have been explained many times before.
RSV is a reference to the spec we had before Legion and the rework to melee.
Marks is themed around you being a sharpshooter, with high skill at using your weapon. With a strive for perfect aim or a rapid rate of fire.
RSV was about augmenting bullets/arrows, making them as deadly as possible without any real need for perfect aim at all. It was the WoW-equivalent to a munitions expert, and it also focused on enhancing our traps.
Mechanically, MM is about hard-casting and channeling, setting up for high burst and moments of upfront damage.
RSV was about DoTs and consistency, about steadily bringing down a target through instant applications of toxins/venoms or multiple explosions. And if you compare old RSV to what it could be if developed as all other specs were, going into Legion, it would/could focus on these aspects even more so than before.
Point is, no, we can’t just play Marksmanship and still have access to a playstyle that functions and feel like RSV.
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Yeah a cross over skills. Good one. Changes the whole thing. If kill command defines bm than I guess bm should be deleted and fixed to be a better spec.
Bm should be deleted. Or just be kept around as a petting zoo toy class for all the gnomies.
Sounds like you don’t want survival. Cause when I think of survival I picture a dude who lives in the woods and probably became besties with a wolf or badger. They go for sick adventures eating random funguses and talking while stalking their prey.
You want some dude who sits in a lab making toxic bolts and other alchemist things. Or maybe the demon hunter from Diablo. Either way I think current survival is the closest rendition of a hunter pet class we got.
Bm is just a class that can take exotic pets ( they don’t do anything special anymore. )
Mm is the lone wolf talent (passive)
And survival is the melee/pet class working hand and hand with each other.
Also forgot to mention playing survival as a ranged class in bgs is hella fun I use the aspect leggo(35% cool down) and hunting party pvp talent. Than just zoom around the map dotting and plotting. Harpoon trapping healers, throwing my bombs in the crowd I’d recommend giving it a try for a fun fast change of pace you might get old vibes from it.
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You asked what the difference was though. The gameplay and themes that were there are no longer really accessible to players.
That’s not a condemnation of the current spec, btw.
I get it. But old survival wasn’t special when the only thing I remember is praying for tnt procs so I can press more explosive shots.
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The last time you played it was wrath then. That talent didn’t last very long in that state. The TNT stun was removed with the talent being redesigned in 3.1.
Regardless, you may not have found it special. That’s fine. It’s very evident others did however.
Edit: I am tired, for some reason I thought you mentioned the stun mechanic from old TNT. I apologize. You’re thinking of Lock and load.
Edit again: Realized why I thought that >_>.
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Wasn’t it tnt? I remember it only last afew weeks in arena with the stun effect? Either way they are the same thing diff names.
Na, they were completely separate talents. TNT got totally redesigned in 3.1 though and didn’t keep the stun. 3.1 came out in April of 09. So it lasted a few months. But after 3.1, Explosive Shot no longer had a stun mechanic tied to it of any sort.
Lock and Load was the talent that proc’d more explosive shots though. It tied in with your traps and black arrow, which was also added in 3.1.
The Survival you’re thinking of with the stun didn’t even have black arrow yet.
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This isn’t at all relevant to the discussion, not to mention how it’s just your personal vision for what defines the term “Survival” in a fantasy-setting.
The topic is about how people want a defining playstyle back as a playable option, one that was a part of the hunter class in the past. One that is unlike anything we have atm.
How well that, or any other, playstyle coincide with the theme of a ‘survivalist’ or not, does not matter.
No, I want the ‘dude’ who ventures out into the wilderness to track down all sorts of ferocious beasts and other wildlife to extract venom from their glands to coat bullets/arrows in, later used for the means of combat. That along with other augmenting effects such as man-made toxins, or explosive ordaments adapted for use with projectiles, procuring arrows/bullets to be infused with certain useful and sometimes lethal magical properties, with the aid of schooled magicians.
That and the idea of someone who also specializes in the art of crafting traps, optimizing their usefulness in combat.
Funny, I recall there being a class that serves very well as a host for a fantasy such as this; Hunter.
- Tracking
- Venomous beasts and poisonous plants used for toxins
- Ranged weapons
- Arrows, bullets
- Augmented shots - venom, magic, explosives
- Enhanced traps
Sounds like a hunter of WoW to me…
You clearly don’t remember it all then, nor do you seem to understand how that differentiates the spec from the theme/fantasy of MM.
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"I like Survival because you fight in melee alongside your pet. Now let me tell you how fun it is to play Survival at range
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we lost a range spec for this
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Encouragingly, Ion did tell Preach that they understand that melee weakness is an encounter design issue that they intend to address going forward… not even as an uncomfortable response to a tough question, just as a point about limited melee spots in raid.
With any luck (and thats the only thing we can hope for) melee won’t always be an inherent pve weakness.
Is that the conclusion you come to when the game has less ranged dps specs than it did on launch and 5 additional melee dps specs?
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That equally describes Marksmanship (Aimed Shot 2.5s cast) and BM (pet dependence)…
Specs similarly built off “handicaps”:
- Affliction – dependence on long DoT ramp-up
- Fire – off double-crit requirements
- Frost – off Icicle generation, Brain Freeze, and Fingers of Frost procs
- Assassination – off Venomous Wounds, causing their gameplay to only really seemingly hit stride in multi-DoT situations
- Fury – off the Enrage mechanic, which, baseline, requires nearly capping its resource to guarantee.
Most specs are at least as designed around their novel disadvantages as their unique affordances.
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Literally 0 of these examples are comparable to SV, which has you ignore the most iconic and core strength of the class just to be different. Surprisingly bad take for you, I must say.
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Assuming I’ve understood what Bepples is after here…
He’s saying that the previous core strength and identity of the class as a whole was that of the ranged weapons, us being able to play at full capacity even when the enemy isn’t close by. Be that through dealing damage, defensive capabilities or utility. And, the increased mobility we have compared to other ranged classes.
In Legion, the devs intentionally took that strength away from 1 spec for the sake of making it stand out more in relation the others.
In the case of what you said about Marksmanship, Aimed Shot is not the identity of the spec as a whole. Aimed Shot is a key function that makes for a part of the identity of MM. But still, MM still adheres to the identity and key strength of the class as a whole.
I guess the best alternative comparison/example I could come up with is in the case of the Rogue class.
Arguably, one of the main strengths and identifying features of Rogues, is their ability to Stealth. Imagine if the devs were to suddenly decide that for example Outlaw should no longer have access to Stealth as a feature/function, because it fits the identity and the fantasy, and it also makes it stand out even more from what the other Rogue-specs could do.
You could also look at Druids.
Imagine if the devs were to suddenly take away the option to shapeshift into animal forms for one of the specs. No way to reliably get out of slows/roots etc., no travel form, no aquatic form, no flight form, etc. And, same as with Rogues, if they took away the option for Druids to enter prowl/stealth, if only Feral(cat spec) could do this.
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