Stop complaining about class balance

You are not an “elemental shaman”. You are a shaman. You have totems. Totems give unique, mandatory buffs.

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Dude are you serious? When did you find out about Classic, last week? The devs have gone to extraordinary lengths to maintain the veracity of Classic as a modern reproduction of Vanilla. Your ignorance on this is obnoxious. At the very least watch this:

There is a clearly stated six phase rollout of the Vanilla patch history up to Naxx. Do you know that? The only “changes” that will occur will be the changes that occurred in Vanilla. That is the definition of Classic. It’s not an ongoing development. It’s a known, verifiable quantity.

They may release progression servers that go to BC. They haven’t confirmed this yet. Links to all this information are all over the forums, and there’s this thing called Google.

Thank God I don’t work with you with the arrogance you are displaying here. Most designers get that crap knocked out of them in the first year. I’m beginning to doubt your claims - not that it matters here anyway. No-one cares.

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Give me the quote please, or you lose this discussion.

Watch the video you self-important troll.

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So you dont have the reference?
Iv seen this video a few times :wink:

No where is it ever stated “We will not change classes in classic”.

To be clear, I’m doing this for people who may be reading this discussion. You obviously cannot be bothered to do even the bare minimum of work yourself to get answers that were provided years ago, and are clearly implicit in the history of the project anyway.

However, you didn’t watch the video very closely (if you really did). From Ion Hazzikostas at 28:55:

Working on WoW Classic, it’s almost in a consulting capacity. It’s been a really fascinating experience as a designer. Normally what I do most of the day with Battle for Azeroth is creative work, problem solving, it’s identifying a hole, figuring out the right puzzle piece that’s going to fit that hole perfectly, thinking about cause, and so on and so forth. But in the case of WoW Classic, that work was already done. That work was completed 12 years ago. And so that raises the question what does design even mean when it comes to this project. If someone was playing WoW in 2006 and lay down and took a very very long nap, and woke up in 2019 and we sat them down in front of WoW Classic, it shouldn’t feel like an immediately different experience.

He then goes on to detail the difficulty of re-creating the Vanilla experience while rigorously adhering to a high standard of veracity, including re-adding bugs that existed in the original game, which had already been exposed in minute detail by previous speakers.

But honestly, if you were interested in the truth, you would know this already. It’s the underlying reason behind the project even existing at all, and came from the pressure applied by the private server community with the help of streamers like Sodapoppin and original Vanilla dev Mark Kern. You would know all this if you had typed a few search terms into Google yourself, though, of course.

Now, if they ever did diverge from what Vanilla was, that would be a completely separate project and would come under the Classic+ stuff. I personally doubt they’ll ever do anything like that, but if they did it wouldn’t effect me. I’m sticking with Classic.

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I like to play rock, paper, scissors than whatever they are playing in retail now.

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Wow i didn’t know fire mages were Ele shamans. Thanks!

I read your post that I initially quoted incorrectly; my bad.

Experience consist of a lot of things, of which the key point is social interaction.

No where does ion say “We will not change classes” or even hints at that. In fact he has directly said “We will not change classes in 1.12”, he did not say “We will not change classes”.

I have been active in wow since the early testing phases.

Where did you get classic+ from?

You sound like another one of the players on forums, a parrot parroting silliness, just like you parroting that there will be no class changes, when blizzard never said that.

For those who are reading along let it be noted, no evidence was ever presented for “classes never being changed”.

From all you are saying, the non-nonsensical questions you are asking, the rejection of any and all primary information, there is no way you have been either reading forums, articles, listening to podcasts, or watching videos. There is also no way you have been following Classic from its inception.

If you can’t see from that single quote, and the ensuing discussion on the rollout of phases and patches, and the context of the entire project for goodness sake that there will be no ongoing design “changes” according to anyone’s idea of balance because “that work was already done and completed 12 years ago”, there’s nothing anyone can say. You’re not discussing honestly now, you’re just blowing hot air into your own little bubble. Either way it doesn’t affect Classic, and thank God.

Have at it.

Addendum: also, please listen from 31:20, specifically (though it’s tough to pick out one single quote as the whole thing is along these lines):

How to be clearer?

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You were asked what the primary distinction of a balance druid was. You responded with those 4.

Balance Druid was not once compared to Elemental Shaman or do you not know how to tell clauses apart?

Also, Ele Shaman does also have dots and burst without being AS held back by mana as balance druid. The only thing really missing is an actual root, but perma slowing people is arguably just as effective in melee match ups if you get first hit.

Im not rejecting anything. You are reading into something that was not said, because of your emotional position. That has nothing to do with rejecting evidence.

The quote does not exist, that is the point.

that is not what ion said.

Again, you are not listening to what he is saying. He was making the point that if they use modern design philosophy (which generally in cyclical in nature) They would ruin the RPS system of wow (for example when it comes to class balance). I agree completely with ion on this, it would degrade class identity.

The issue here is that you, and people like you are unable to understand fine details of statements. You are unable to distinguish between fixing class related issues, and balancing classes. They are two hugely different things. To you as a player, the two are the same thing when it comes to making changes to classes.

To be more clear,
You can for example reduce the mana cost to balance druids abilities to make it more viable as a form of correcting class related issues. The class itself is not valid, why? because of said mana issues. What is interesting is that when the balance patches came around in retail we immediately started to see balance druids as a main thing.

These are clear examples of how the problem is internal to the expansion, and has nothing to do with retail vs classic experiences. Your entire argument is that any change at all will break the classic experience, and that is simply not true. The majority of what classic is, is built around social interaction.

Your holy war against class changes is unmerrited, unreasonable, and utterly unsupported by any direct statements or evidence. And there is statements (like the ones provided) that are clear about changes coming to classes in a future patch.

Even more to the point to prove how insane your position is…

You cited

Ok, So lets look at the work that was done 12 years ago. You lose this debate, do you know why? The next patch is a class balance patch.

Which means if blizzard is following true to their classic experience, incoming changes.

With that its gg.

I was making it clear that balance druids are really not all that unique. They are basically just another version of elemental, with out totems to define them as being unique.

I’ve no idea how you purists assume that class imbalance and uniqueness go hand in hand or that balancing somehow removes uniqueness from classes and makes them “homogeneous”

Um… you must a joy to work with. Are you now claiming that the incoming patches are what you have been talking about? That’s the 6-phase roll out. No-one is arguing that’s not Vanilla. If those changes weren’t implemented the #nochanges community would be up in arms. But they’re the only changes you are going to get, not any of your pontifications about class balance, because that was Vanilla (up to and including Naxx).

I don’t know how to respond to this. It’s such a weird, self-aggrandizing agenda-driven take on what the entire video is saying it’s like you’re talking about another video completely. The point he was making was that they don’t intend to mess with Vanilla as it was in any way, even to “fix” things that might legitimately be fixed because of the effects of the necessary modern elements of the codebase. The clearly stated message was that they want Classic to be as Vanilla was in every way possible, and they aren’t going to mess with that. That was the point of the Pandora’s box metaphor. I mean… gosh.

Is English your second language? Real question, because I’m wondering if slight language issues are contributing to your obtuseness.

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No, im not implying that. I am saying however that your argument of no change is worthless because no matter how much you and idiots like you scream #no change, They changes are coming sooner or later.

Funny i was thinking the same thing with your lack of ability to understand statements, now im questioning if you have “issues”.

Ok bud. Intentionally or not this is now at the level of trolling, which isn’t actually surprising as that’s kind of where it began. I guess you got me.

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So, you dont like that your wrong, and after throwing resorts want to cry about it?

I hope to god the community eats you and purists like you alive. In the end no matter what, You are wrong, enjoy the changes when they come, pleb.

Oh, they will learn next update when they release the reworks to talents and the classes.

Massive class changes then. I cant wait until the forums are fill of purist tears, i wanna collect them in my qq tear jar and save them. They are mine, all mine.