when you do this, I leave group. it’s bad judgement thinking shroud is more important than the players skill level in the M+
carry !@#$& invisibility potions if you cannot find a Rogue and take a more skilled player over a low io, low iLevel rogue
son of a gun what happened to simple logic in this world ??
Simple logic says it’s a lot easier to get a rogue, though. Unskilled rogues are way more common than skilled players of any class.
Not true. There are plenty of skilled players out there. A rogue who isn’t pulling their weight in damage is barely making up for it with shroud.
But the meta!!
MUST HAVE TRIPLE OUTLAW RESTO DRUID PROT WAR FOR MY +10!!!
I don’t trust pug rogues anymore regardless of their ilvl or score. If they are below 1.5k season 2 or 1k season 3 they are almost certainly complete garbage in everything except being a shroud bot.
If they are high score they likely have zero patience, will rage at every decision I make (since I’m usually tank and group lead) and will shroud at random times and insist on their shroud choice above all others.
Blizz increased trash requirements across the board and emissaries give percent so I don’t feel so guilty about ignoring rogues anymore.
If you really want to take a pug rogue then take their M+ score and chop a minimum of 500 off to get a better estimate of their true competence.
I’m also starting to apply this logic to the vast majority of havoc DHs who can’t find their dispel, imprison, stun and darkness buttons inside their spellbook, and take constant avoidable damage as a DPS spec with among the best mobility in the game.
Man, you guys have grouped with some terrible rogues apparently. Usually I’m the only one in the PUG, but every time there’s been two, I’ve never seen another rogue do any of this stuff. We’re well behaved. It’s the rogue code.
As a rogue who only PUGs (because I can’t find a consistent group, and… am really wondering why if there’s apparently so many rogues like this out there…) I have to actively speak out against anyone advocating that you shave 500 points off of a rogue’s score to get a better understanding of their experience.
For one, that’s not gonna resolve any of the problems you mentioned. Raging at all your decisions, shrouding at will, etc. aren’t really experience related. A rogue doing this stuff at 1k IO will still be doing it at 2k IO.
That said, I know at least one rogue with a high IO who doesn’t rage, doesn’t complain, and is super patient, because it’s just a freakin’ video game, and I know that people make mistakes sometimes. Also pulls good damage (35k-42k overall in M+ for most dungeons), interrupts like a champ, and shrouds exactly when the group leader tells him to without argument.
Congratulations you are the exception to the rule and apparently the few other rogues you can personally vouch for
But we’re talking about generalizations and stereotypes here which if they become popular enough have some basis in fact.
Rogue code ? Nope, it’s the other melee specs (eg. fury warrior) that have to behave and perform well because they have no “you have to take me to your group every time” button
Moving way up in desirability for groups solely based on your class leads to masses of terrible entitled and lazy players flocking to that class and filling up most/every run, and their attitude never changes as they progress in experience and gear
So many masses of rogues who sit there while a non-interruptable trash cast goes off with no use of KS, CS, blind or gouge, or get mowed down by AOE damage with no use of feint
As a rule of thumb OP, always rest 500 IO from Rogue and Havoc DH players. It’s more accurate that way to know their experience.
Funny hearing this coming from someone playing a DH, the #1 spec choice for sperglords.
500io to 2500io DH all play at about the same capacity.
I don’t think I was dealing with other exceptions. It was pretty common last season to run two outlaw rogues for high keys, so I grouped with dozens of other rogues and never had these problems.
I feel like this might be more of a low to mid level keystone problem. I never see this behavior in 15+ pugs. I’m not even sure it could exist at that level, because if your rogue’s doing even half of these things, the group won’t make time.
Get that IO up, folks. Once you start pugging 15+ keys, a lot of the problems people complain about here cease to exist. I so rarely encounter griefers, quitters, bad rogues, people who don’t interrupt, etc. It’s quite nice.
(And yes, I too dealt with it in season 1 building my IO score. But the nice thing is, you really only have to deal with this once. When the season resets, and you have a high score from the previous season, you can pretty much jump right into high keystone groups with high IO players and build your new score without dealing with all this nonsense. As I said, I didn’t have to deal with it much in season 2 because of my season 1 score, and I haven’t dealt with it at all this season because of my season 2 score…)
I also won’t deny that rogues have an easier time getting invited to pugs than most other classes, so I can definitely see how it’s easy for them to inflate score and get it pretty high without pulling their weight. But probably only to about 1300 or so. After a certain level, probably about 15s, it becomes impossible to time if someone’s not pulling their weight.
They’ll hit a wall eventually, and will not be able to progress unless and until they start pulling their weight.
The phenomenon crossbless refers to is exactly why I try to snap up most wizard applicants to my lfg groups
Anyone playing spriest at or near ksm by week 3 is somebody I want in my group fearing mob channels
Apparently +10’s are serious.
I think I’m going to start putting a message like this in my group description when I host a key
“Tell me at least 5 of your non-damage utility spells (besides interrupt, lust or brez) that you bring to an M+ group and in what situation you would typically use them”
Well, duh. You don’t get to +15s with that kind of behavior… You also aren’t going to get your IO high enough for that just pugging without playing a meta class, being in a good guild, or getting lucky. It’s hard to just get into a pug group if you don’t already have a good IO score as an off-meta class, let alone a good group. Running your own keys helps some, but it’s hard to be picky about players when you don’t have a high IO and good keys, and IO isn’t all that trustworthy at ~1.2k or below to begin with.
I’ve seen a number of 1-1.2k io players (Not only rogues, though they’re more common) with close to 430 ilvl ruin +7-9 keys. Most of the time when rogues shroud in lower key pugs, it ends up going wrong anyway, and since they don’t bother to use their kit to interrupt channels with stuns and such, there’s really no reason to bring a rogue over anyone else in those lower keys.
A player of a non-meta class will generally be better than one of a meta class if they have the same IO score.
I just did a group with an alt for Shrine +11, had this rogue that ended the dungeon with the less interrupts done. In a group that included a Balance Druid and a Shadow Priest, like i dont even get the majority of rogue players and yes i say the majority because most are like this from what i have seen.
Like any Rogue spec literally has an interrupt with a lenght 1/3 of the Shadow Priest interrupt and 1/4 of the Balance Druid interrupt, i mean you basicly have to not have your interrupt keybinded for that those specs having more interrupts.
I think ima just start resting 700 IO from Rogues from now on from my past 500, i would say is well deserved.
There’s zero excuse for a rogue not to be interrupting. Outlaw has interrupts for days. Kick. Between the eyes. Gouge. Blind. Vanish > Cheap shot. You’re grouping with bad rogues.
For higher keys, I never see this behavior from fellow rogues.
Subtract what you want, but by the time you’re doing 15’s or higher, the rogues there have earned their scores, and couldn’t have achieved them without knowing how to pull their weight and use their toolkit.
Don’t bring your “coming from a DH” liberal attitude. Players are sick of people like you “says the DH” attitude in the game. We get it, you hate DH in the game, you’re angry they’re in the game - but guess what? that’s YOUR problem to deal with, so take your liberal attitude elsewhere.
No my friend it’s your problem to deal with because you are the DPS spec and it’s almost always you applying to a group instead of hosting your own
rofl who is going to type all that rather than just applying to other groups?
As a 500 io DH, I will take that as a compliment.