State of Frost DK's in pvp 11.05

Prep yourselves, this is a bit of a long one. This is PvP Specific so if you don’t have anything constructive to add, move along please. TLDR is the bottom paragraph.

I made a post at the end of last expansion going over the state of Frost Dk’s and their place in the current meta and state in PVP with some ideas on how to improve their kit. Well, with the release of TWW from the end of Dragonflight, I’d say there has been much improvement even some semblance of those ideas being in the new hero talents but there is still… more that needs to be done. It doesn’t help that they keep getting gutted in the first couple weeks EVERY expansion making it one if not the lowest picked class/spec combos in PVP in the game. So I wanted to list some more ideas that I think could help the spec tremendously.

First off lets talk about damage and talents. With the New hero talents especially Deathbringer (particularly what I play), I feel it synchronizes well with CD’s and can make for some enjoyable moments, but the damage is still a bit low in PVP. In order to maximize it’s output you need incredible amount of setup and most likely use of big defensive CD’s to counter the counterplays. (Medallion, Icebound, Lichborne). While the uptime has been increased with Pillar and big Damage CD’s, the spec still suffers with it. If Frost DK’s need to be Glass Cannon, then let’s bring the Cannon up more. So what can be done? Well I I’d love to say just buff the main 3 abilities to compensate (which I’d take still), but let’s think outside the box a bit.

Looking at talents, there are some that could be merged, removed, or become baseline.

  • Icecap is boring IMO and Pillar should just be a 45 sec CD. Just remove or make it do something else.
  • Dead of Winter PVP talent is 99% of the time mandatory because of the setup in burst which limits choice for comps and fighting comps. the 10 sec CD reduction should be baseline to remorseless winter and the stun should be baked into Absolute Zero talent alongside Frostwyrm’s Fury stun.
  • Deathchill is a dead talent and basically provides the same utility as Ice Prison in the Class Tree that was added this expansion. Just remove it.
  • Cold heart should just be removed or actually worth taking, not sure if anyone takes this even in PVE currently.

But I do want to dive into Glacial Advance a some. I think there is an opportunity to massively buff this ability and incorporate it into the rotation in all forms of play. The reason would be is that it’s one of the only abilities that uses runic power aside from Frost strike, Deathstrike, and Death Coil. The latter two being a defensive and borderline useless for Frost unless it’s to be used with Lichborne, more on that later. I propose Glacial Advance be severely buffed so that is a decent hitting ability even outside of Pillar go’s. You can do this by just putting like a 15-20 second CD on it. This will allow that when you need to Runic power dump, which is often, at least one of your abilities can be a Glacial Advance. Of course buffing that, you would need to tune Artic Assault at the bottom.

Next biggest thing is survivability. I know DK’s are like “anticaster” but even AMS lately doesn’t feel great with the damage casters are putting out unless you take every AMS buffed talent possible. They need an ability that is FROST exclusive. If you compare to other classes in the game, it’s crazy that they do not have more. Like I’m honestly thinking about every class and I can’t think of any other class that doesn’t have some sort of immunity and/or damage reduction that is 30% or less other then warrior but even that has a heal attached to it. Even Unholy with Lichborne/Death Coil heal is way better because it’s buffed up through their talents and actually helpful. So here are some ideas for a PVP talent which I think would work because it could be a solid but not mandatory choice if you are confident in your healer on your team. If so, then opt into another utility option.

  • “Cold Blooded” - When Lichborne is active, the passive leech is increased up to 50% for the duration.
  • “Succulent Feast”- After every 200 Runic power spent Gain the effects of Dark Succor.
  • “Icebound Will” - Increase the damage reduction of Icebound Fortitude by 30% and its duration by 2 seconds. (Similar to a buffed Astral Shift from Shamans.)
  • “Cryostasis” (Would replace Rot and Wither PVP talent) - Your Death and Decay turns into a blue mist. When you or Ally’s enter into it, gain Cauterizing Frost. When enemies enter into it, they are afflicted with Cauterizing Decay.

“Cauterizing Frost”- when remaining in Death and Decay effected by Cryostasis gain a shield for 5% of maximum health every second stacking up to 6 times. Can only occur once every 90 seconds.

“Cauterizing Decay” - Enemies remaining in Death and Decay effected by Cryostasis receive a debuff that absorbs healing up to 5% of maximum health every second stacking up to 6 times. Can only occur once every 30 seconds.

A few examples there I think any of which would greatly help.
Overall/TLDR I think the spec is very close to being really good. Just Tune the damage in Pillar Go’s and outside of it, make a couple talents baseline, add a survivability PVP talent and boom. What are your thoughts?

2 Likes

I generally agree with your thoughts. I wouldn’t mind getting rid of dead of winter if we get some damage buffs in return. General consensus seems to be that it’s not fun to play against anyways.

I’m not sure on the glacial advance change but I do think it would be nice to have another ability or two added to our rotation. As it stands, rime and frost scythe are both awful (in PvP) and should be buffed to be part of our single target rotation.

Defensively, frost is indeed the weaker of the two dps specs, despite the face that it’s almost a pure melee spec and needs to be in the fray to do most of its damage. I don’t think it needs any more defense against casters but it could definitely use something vs physical.

I like your suggestions and can write a book on other changes that would make frost feel more modern, but I don’t think we will be seeing any big reworks anytime soon. In the meantime a simple damage buff and maybe a death strike buff would help a ton in PvP. It’s not unplayable, just a bit weak.

1 Like

Thanks for the response and thoughts. Ya, I do think damage tuning at the very least is fine, I just think that part of why it is a low pick rate that I didn’t mention is that the rotation and gameplay is boring for many? Idk. but it would say regards to speed it is the slowest melee in the game without UH pets to compensate, and everyone may just want to go go go.

I would say yes it’s boring to the average player. It doesn’t pump much damage outside pillar of frost, leading to lulls in the gameplay where you don’t feel like you’re having much impact. Not to say this play style is bad, just unpopular.

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Deathbringer seems weak because IT DOESN’T WORK HALF THE TIME. It’s BUGGED and nothing is being said about it. It goes off after like 3 stacks and does weak damage.

The reliance on haste/crit means mastery is stacked low, making the class hit like a wet noodle compared to other melee classes outside a full CD burn. All of our abilities have a resource, so haste is a must. No neutral ability to help push up the runic regen. Most of our damage comes from set up from a crit, so crit is a must. No talents to help neutral game crit. there was an attempt with Frostwyrm helper giving a lot of mastery but that doesnt help at all outside of CD burns. 200k Obliterates, rime is 300k Howling Blast, and 300k Frost Strikes, you r job as frost is to run away till you get them to CC chain you during your CD burn.

Warrior is spamming 700k Mortal Strikes every 6 seconds and 500k Overpowers. In a shootout burning CDs and going toe to toe, we lose. Same with rogue, different reasons. Rogue CC is more effectively utilized, and Warrior Damage is off the charts while having almost the same amount of CC. Only thing unique and possibly needs tuned or reworked is grip, TBH it is real annoying, kind of like a shaman push.

Couple things the devs could do is make the runic spenders all shadowfrost damage. Deathstrike with the sang. rune would be good for finishing fights as well as helping the damage mitigation thru the physical % reduction PvP talent, plus a Deathcoil with shadowfrost would be nice. AND FIX DEATHBRINGER!!

2 Likes

The cold hard reality is no matter what we post, the devs wont do anything with fdk in pvp.

But if they did, I would suggest giving it a more well rounded defensive kit (like every other spec has) and I think it would be in a decent spot. Right now its kit is, and has always been focused around countering casters. We get absolutely decimated by melee dps. Like we literally dont have the toolkit to beat a warrior, ww monks or any hunter spec. No spec should be as hard countered as fdk is to that many other classes and specs.

3 Likes

I’m liking the ideas! I’ve personally always thought frost DK would be so much easier to balance if it played similar to arms warrior or WW monk with rotational abilities on a short CD. I really wish GA however worked in a frontal ground cone similar to hoarfrost stomp like in Elden Ring. A single line of a few icicles is lame.

I’ll trade buffs for a good shattering blade animation