Stacking buffs

Just quit with the stacking buffs already

I thought the idea behind the rework was to reduce button bloat and stacking modifiers for ret? And make the spec more fluid and less clunky……stacking modifiers make the class bursty and clunky not to mention its not fun to have ret utility but be focused on my stacking modifiers instead of gameplay. if I wanted to rogue I’d rogue……for the love of god quit making us stare at addons so we know when to do our damage it’s not fun and runs people away from the game

Edit: I was watching lvladen newest video and he explains it a lot better than I can

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Which ones are you speaking of? As far as I have experienced on the PTR, outside of % damage bonuses attached to talents, the only modifiers are Dusk/Dawn, Cons and Divine Storm, and…maybe Inquistor’s Ire and how well it aligns with Empyrean Legacy

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There is the one that stacks to 50 also……never liked it I forget the name

blizzard only waned to remove the “you press 4 byttons then do damage” type of stacking buffs. everything else is fine

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Blizzard clearly stated the stacking modifiers were the problem.

Stacking modifiers : There are currently several talents and abilities that provide stacking bonuses, which can make for a confusing and messy playstyle that deals extreme burst damage, but in return leaves your core abilities feeling unsatisfying and under-tuned. We intend to significantly change this. We want your core abilities to feel good and powerful when used in all situations. This doesn’t mean we’re reducing all elements of burst damage, but we do want to make burst more purposeful and deliberate, while also allowing options that provide sustained damage.

They removed Seraphim then added more… I’m not sure why they did this.

We have modifiers to amp our damage beyond 500% of base. Our top end is higher than before not lower on the PTR. You can do 600K+ damage in two swings with a DP proc.

Another player reported doing over 600K in one swing with Empyrean Legacy. I believe it as I can get 400K+ crits with JV and 300K crits with FV.

there was no passive modifier in live, that you stacked/timed for maximum damage, yall legit need to get reading comprehension. they were talking about the crusade to seraphim, double ds to fr, spender,dt, combo. aka the 1min playstyle burst rotation.

again passive modifiers arent the problem, it was seraphim. if anything damage can be tuned down or modfiers can be tuned down

3 Likes

I have reading comprehension, you’re reading something into the post that they didn’t state. They clearly stated the stacking modifiers are the problem.

I’ve done the same thing but point out when I’m inferring something they didn’t come out and clearly say.

Let me get this straight, your going to solve the problem they stated above (Extreme burst down to wet noodle) by adding an even larger damage amp build while making more of it passive?

Our top end is higher right now due to the passive amps adding more than seraphim did. This means the difference between burst damage and normal damage is further apart than on live. A JV can be modified to 16X base damage including a crit modifier.

They are trying to fix this…

xtreme burst damage, but in return leaves your core abilities feeling unsatisfying and under-tuned.

You think they fix this by making top end higher as long as more of it’s passive? The higher top end is the lower sustain has to be if you want to maintain roughly the same overall damage. You don’t fix this by adding modifiers, you fix this by removing them and making base damage higher.

Hint that 60% passive damage amp becomes much higher when stacked with wings/FR. That 66% amp on VoJ becomes much higher.

Those two stacked take a baseline finisher from 100% damage to 266% , 166% increase.

Add wings and FR and those two go from adding 166% to adding almost 280% damage. Amps are multiplicative, so if you start with a passive amp of 166% you add wings and FR then that passive amp goes to the moon (166% X 1.2 X 1.4 = 278.88). That’s 280% those two are adding, that doesn’t count the wings/FR amp to base. Total it looks more like this…

100 base
160 after blessing of dawn (X1.6)
265.6 after VoJ (X1.66)
318.72 after judgement (X1.2)
382.464 after wings (X1.2)
535.4496 after FR (X1.4)

If you want wings and other active CDs to feel good as well, you have to start with much smaller modifiers or none at all unless you want to push top end way to high forcing wet noodle damage outside of CDs.

The FR and wings amp becomes more than a 200% increase over baseline damage. A single crit during this window becomes worth about 4 base line finishers (400%) rather than 75% value of baseline.

Add sophic/on use trinket you are north of 600%. Add in crit modifier you are at 1050%. Add in HoJ with JV your getting near 1600% of base damage…

If you get rid of these stacking modifiers you could increase base significantly and buff wings to add 30-40% damage. You could have wings add 30% damage and 30% crit, you can do a lot if you get rid of these modifiers. Yes top end would be lower than live but base damage could be much higher and CDs still feel good to press, the entire goal of the rework according to the blue posts.

There are way to many modifiers right now. It’s worse than live, I’m baffled as to why the Devs are doing this. These modifiers are hamstringing our class and the PTR has yet to fix that. I don’t understand why so much of the player base doesn’t see the following…

Adding more stacking modifiers, especially ones with high % values, prevent implementation of a damage profile in accordance with the original intentions communicated by the blue.

You can’t have conditional stacking modifiers that add this kind of damage and have base higher as well. Small % flat increases work fine, over a number of talents. You can have 1 add a significant amount to top end or perhaps a few, you can’t have 4-6 with high percentage values that stack (multiplicative) and not run into the same problem as live.

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Ptr ret has dusk and dawn and final reckoning if you are running it.
Why would you consider judgement (part of your base kit since 2015, nerfed to 20%), avenging wrath (your major dps cooldown, pvp nerfed to 15%) vanguard of justice (a talent that will not see play outside of pvp if any and that has an added tradeoff)?

Now I am one of the few that wanted seraphin, divine toll, final reckoning, execution sentence all GONE. I would love if dts judgement didnt deal 100% damage and right now ES stores way too much damage. Fr is fine Imo considering it just got nerfed to 40% (and it is further nerfed to 25% in pvp combat). If it was up to me I would remove them all except FR just because it has use pve/pvp and st/aoe

do you play other specs? I do and I can list all the other modifiers warriors or shamans have. diference is these specs have them up every few seconds unlike ret used to every 1 min. this is what blizzard is trying to do, spread out damage outside of cooldowns and from what Ive seen its working quite well so far. but I do see ES getting out of control REAL FAST.

2 Likes

Look, I’m not saying the entire rework is bad.

I’m saying buffing our top end even further with modifiers is making the problem worse. Our top end on the PTR is higher.

I’m saying the “tuning” we are in store for should be about looking at these modifiers rather than lowering base. They should be looking at these before nurfing wings for example a core CD that we want to have a considerable impact when used.

I’m aware other specs have CD/modifiers. Are you saying that they have modifiers that can make a primary damage ability hit 10X? I don’t think Rogues can make a finisher do 10X the damage of a base finisher, or 16X like we do. Warriors can’t amp a Mortal Strike from ~25K base to 400K+ crit self buffed.

Modifiers are fine generally speaking.

Again, it’s about how many you can stack and how terrible your sustain has to be in order to balance overall DPS.

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so much words despite being wrong, you legit cant do wrong with passive modifiers because its literally rewards for playing your rotation correctly. you can 100% ignore all fo them. this isnt softo where your just holding things for a 4 second seraphim proc

My warrior that I just started playing (so I suck) can ms for 35k without modifiers and make it 100k every 25s and it goes even higher with avatar spear. But heres the thing, arms enhancement dont need to 1 hit ko you (arms definitely can one shot) but their constant stream of damage is very high outside of their cds. Ret should aim for that balance.

So far as I said ES has me worried because even with the slower build its stored damage goes higher than DF ES pre nerfs. We will see, listen If ret ends up being a one hit wonder after the rework then yea more balancing needs to be done. I want ret to be a tanky sustained damage dealer and not the glass cannon one shot machine weve been for so long. So far I ike what I see on the ptr for the most part. Things that I would change.

->Maybe buff d&d damage buff but dont let it stack (stacking d&d requires you for the most part to overcap holy power and that is stupid)

->Maybe increase ES cd back to 1 min or reduce its damage if at 30s/make it cost hp (I would just delete ES alltogether lol)

->Remove avenging wraths might crit component and add something else (idk something lile during aw:m your attacks now also debuff the enemy for x% of the damage dealt over 15s. Further damage adds to the debuff) things that reduce the damage spikes but adds preassure.

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I like the dynamic of having a single-target buff and a multi-target buff so you need to make decisions, within limits. For instance, since we can change spec in raid but not in M+, I think this works well.

And what function would this have in PvE? I can’t see anything like this being implemented, unless it’s a pvp talent to modify the spec talent.

The aw node is basically a pvp vs pve choice. So it is a change that benefits pvp. Also it would work in pve too idk why wouldnt?

Then what do you mean “debuff”? Do you mean a dot?

Yes a stacking dot, that keeps increasing the more you hit the target.