ST vs AOE Builds

I’m finding it odd how, in order to maximize total damage on a boss fight, some specs must use a talent build that has no AoE abilities. The DPS difference between the best ST builds and the best AoE builds isn’t equal between classes. Some specs can just run with a general build that’s good at everything, but if I want 10% more ST dmg as BM, I must shed Multi-Shot, Beast Cleave and Kill Cleave from my spell book. The alternative is mediocrity on ST boss fights.

This really shouldn’t be a thing. AoE needs to be baseline.

10 Likes

In order to specialize in a thing you have to give up other things? How unprecedented.

5 Likes

Why is it bad to shed unneeded skills and talents in favor of ones that better suit the situation?

5 Likes

wouldn’t that bring back the cataclysm homogenization?

The flavor differences between our builds shouldn’t be single target versus cleave. They should be more meaningful than that.

Because other classes need not do so.

Having a base kit that can do either aoe or ST is fine. Talents should enhance what you’re doing, not limit you to only doing one thing.

Imagine playing a frost mage and you couldn’t spec into frostbolt for your aoe spec, it’d be weird.

4 Likes

I actually ran a key with another BM hunter who used the big ST build during the run. They performed adequately on bosses, but poorly on trash. They opted into slowing the key down because Blizzard gave them the option of not having any cleave abilities. Getting hit by mechanics is one thing, but not using any cleave in a dungeon full of multi-target pulls is downright silly.

1 Like

It is a bit weird how some specs have generalist builds that can do everything they need and the different paths are play style preference based. Where as with other specs you have to choose between AoE or single target and switch on bosses.

5 Likes

Yep. The BM ST build does about 15% more ST dmg than any of the M+ builds, aka builds with Beast Cleave.

Some classes have to give up a LOT MORE to do AoE than others.

Frost DK gives up nearly nothing to do good AoE or Single-Target. BM Hunter and Unholy DK give up something in the realm of 20% of their damage to do the same thing. Hell, BM’s best build in M+ is unironically just running pure single-target talents because it gives up that much of its single-target.

3 Likes

The main problem is that some specs literally can’t do aoe in ST and vice versa but some classes can.

Some classes only change 1-2 talents, some change 3-4.

2 Likes

It’s weird with marks as well because you have to spec into all of the AoE abilities. The standard ST marks build just doesn’t have AoE lol. You can drop a point in a single target talent to pick up multishot or volley, but it’s weird that such a basic hunter ability is now a talent.

3 Likes

Heroic Vault is wonky now, ST bm builds do more than an aoe build, even on aoe fights lol. It’s just that people outgear it so much now.

Yep the classes aren’t equal.

Homogenization of the classes is bad. It’s a tiny thing to deal with, you can literally make 10 builds and then swap with 1 button pushed to get the setup you want.

NO, don’t make AoE baseline, make players learn their class to play to the best extent they can.

It’s going to take some time with the new talent system to work through it all.

Who would take multiple target talents on Terros?

1 Like

It’s not that tiny.

Mythic Raszageth was problematic because, as people joke, Blizzard tuned the fight in its original state as if classes could do both their ST and their AoE at 100% effectiveness. That boss was completely not doable in that stage, though, because even the classes that can do that sort of stuff weren’t very good on that fight.

Some classes are straight-up dogwater at AoE if they go ST, and lose all their ST if they try doing AoE. BM Hunter’s best M+ build, as I said, is just going ST because its AoE is not good enough to warrant giving up the best ST damage in the entire game.

3 Likes

Demolock has entered the chat.

A single boss fight…the very definition of TINY. The simple fact of the matter is the classes are designed to have to make choices, it’s part of the game for a reason, you cannot be the best at everything all the time. That folks think they need to be is a they problem.

im a dh, my ST sucks no matter what i do. but you know what? im fine being an aoe god ill bring along a rouge for bosses