ST can't be cleared by an average PUG

ST can’t be cleared by PUGs, not cus it’s hard, but cus it just takes way too long. There’s way too much trash. And you’re not going to find the same 20 group of people to finish the raid again later in the week for a PUG, so usually that ends up being it.

In the last 3 ST PUGs that I’ve joined, the raid disbanded after 5-6/8, because by then it was getting too late into the night and folks had to leave. I’ve NEVER even attempted Eranikus, so I have no idea how hard or easy it even is. I get the argument that some bosses need to have a learning curve and players needing to develop strategies to kill them. But how do you expect PUGs to even practice on a boss if they can’t even get to it?

If ST is truly intended to be a level up raid that can be cleared by an average PUG, please make it shorter so that PUGs can clear it in a single night. The only way I can see that happening without taking out the fun of it is to reduce the amount of trash.


I’ll be honest, and I might catch some heat for saying this, but I’m not looking forward to the return of 2+ hour raids. Previous raids lasted between 45 minutes to 1.15 hours, which was perfect for me. I really enjoyed that length and was hoping it would become the norm. However, seeing how ST was managed and considering other dungeons that could become raids, it seems like shorter raids won’t be the standard moving forward.


It seems like the sod devs are pushing players to join guilds.

  • The gdkp ban drives players away from pugs and toward guilds.
  • The difficulty and mechanics of gnomer for the average pug was probably a bit too much.
  • current difficulty of ST and amount of trash leads to groups that aren’t filled with above average players splitting the raid into 2 separate nights

Not saying this is a bad thing. I think playing classic with a guild is a much more fun experience than pugging.


The thing is, ST is a level up raid. It’s going to become irrelevant in few weeks. Ordinary raids are endgame content, and usually stay relevant for months, giving ample time for PUGs to gear up, get better, and eventually clear it. ST? at this rate it’s not going to be cleared by an average PUG.

But yea, I do agree that I prefer shorter raids. Give us more raids, and shorter length on each of them, rather than one big raid that takes long to clear. Divide it up.


If that’s the case then I feel that I’ve been misled. P1 and 2 were pug friendly and gave an impression that SOD would cater to casuals/pugs. But if Blizzard is intent on changing that, I feel that many players, including myself, would lose interest and quit SOD.


Gnomer became irrelevant very quickly. All through P2 you saw people running BFD. I rarely see Gnomer groups now that we are in P3.

Cant even find groups to do dungeons, lol. Everyone Looping!!!

Phase 3 is really bad so far.


Yea, Gnomer was probably borderline too hard for pugs. I’ve been in pugs last couple weeks of P2 that couldn’t even clear gnomer.

But at least the raid was short enough for pugs to even attempt the bosses several times. ST? We’re not even attempting them. And no, it’s not going to get better as we gear up. Gear that drops in ST is only slightly better than gnomer/emerald warden gear.


“We cleared 6 bosses in 2 hours, that’s not good enough!”

Sounds like a personal problem. Tell your tanks to pull the trash in bigger groups. There’s a lot of it, and none of it is dangerous until the ghosts.

Remember, this is 20 man, you can handle bigger pulls than a 10 man.

Yup, there is no reason why you shouldnt be pulling multiple packs, unless you have trash tanks, healers, and dps that cant cc and stun.

This is the worse thing to happen to SOD.

Why do you care so much that other people are able to clear content?


The sweats want to gatekeep the dad pugs from being able to enjoy the game.


ST is incredibly easy.

This is a skill issue to the max.


if you can’t devote 2-3 hours to a raid then classic isn’t for you :expressionless:
in before “it’s not classic”. it is


I’ve cleared it in several pugs already. half your raid can be gray parsing dps-wise and you can still clear if you have a handful of strong players.

1 Like

Its like you didn’t read the OP at all. He says its because trash takes too long, which it does, and most groups end up disbanding before they even get to take attempts on the last two bosses.

1 Like

Most groups according to who? I’m telling you that is not my experience as the raid takes less than 2 hours to clear

1 Like

The plethora of groups searching for people in the last few days of the lockout when they are 5-6/8

Thats because the leveling experience in P2 sucked and BFD was actually the easiest way to get a level and a half once every 3 days. P3 leveling takes like 5 hours so no need to run old content to level up.